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foreign

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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foreign

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it's hello from the Steel City I bet you

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all good evening good morning good

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afternoon wherever you may be Across the

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Nation around the world

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my name is Leah Prime and this is the

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invisible night school

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for those of you just joining us the

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invisible night school is a small

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Consortium of lay researchers and

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Scholars pursuing the study and

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exploration of ufology high strangeness

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and phenomenon

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ins is not a monolith we represent

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varied ideas backgrounds disciplines and

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experiences and seek to engage in good

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faith dialogue with other curious minds

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today we've got a special show lined up

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at a special time obviously broadcasting

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at 3 pm Eastern we're joined by Marco

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Visconti whose book The Aleister Crowley

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manual thalamic magic for modern times

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was just released Marco's work presents

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a no-nonsense practical guide to working

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the magic of Aleister Crowley he's

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taught hundreds of students to navigate

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and explore the transmutative powers in

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the western essay tradition and I'm

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super super excited to welcome him to

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hi how's it going

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oh it's going great I'm delighted uh

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this conversation has been a long time

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coming and I'm really excited to have

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you join

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um myself and also of course let me get

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Campbell on the stream too heaven forbid

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I forget him

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yes and part of the reason I'm so

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excited to speak with you um when I've

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been following your work for a while

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um really appreciate what you're doing

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both with your teaching and with the

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book that you're putting out and also um

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very aligned I would say kind of

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politically in this sense of

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um understanding and exploring some of

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the political incursions in Fringe

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subjects we certainly see this in the

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UFO space and I'm also excited to talk

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to you because here at ins we're always

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interested in

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um I would say more thoughtful

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conversations about high strangeness or

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liminal spaces and I've just been so

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impressed with the conversations I've

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heard you be part of the different

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podcasts and shows that you've done so

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super super excited to have you here

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today

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well thank you very much thank you it

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was a pleasure to be here yes also I see

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I'm getting questions from Nick

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um it's not a water closet no it's it's

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um I'm actually sitting in a hotel in

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Pittsburgh I'm stranded because of

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weather and so I've been a conversion of

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an old YMCA that was turned into a very

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bougie Bourgeois anderson-esque uh

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yeah I mean I did wonder what is that

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actually

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ironing board it's an ironing board and

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I guess something to hang clothes on I

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don't know I don't own anything

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Marco would you be able to

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um familiarize me in the audience with

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sort of just a brief synopsis of your

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most recent book

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of course well uh let's see where to

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start first of all uh I have the book

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here so if anybody wants to to see what

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it looks like uh it's red uh there's a

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big letters and there's a strange

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character on the front right this

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strange like goat Angel bone kind of

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thing it's called Baphomet and

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um I will tell you the secret like that

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was not my choice of the color but you

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know that's my first book right and uh

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when you go with a publisher uh you just

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have to you just have to go with the

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full and and go with what you know the

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pr team needs to be the marketing teams

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as a team says it's gonna

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um it looks better in the sense that he

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was on a Bookshop the other day here in

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London and it really pops out right okay

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that makes sense

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um what is what is this book

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um

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if you ever try to make sense of magic

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you know with the K so something that's

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not stage magic so it's not not illusion

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so it's not it's not like a trick but

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something that supposedly should

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um

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to be like a series of techniques that

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gets you to elevate your your spiritual

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uh self to higher levels okay and also

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maybe a series of techniques that can

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get you what you want okay if you ever

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try to read a book like that you can

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usually end up on the on on a spectrum

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on one side you get very dense very

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complicated uh from time to time you

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know books loaded with academic terms

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and if you're a newbie you you

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completely you completely like lost

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right

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um Crowley himself was on that uh you

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know on the side of the spectrum it is

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magnum opus which is a Liber ABA magic

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interior practice which I quote in the

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in this book quite a lot

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um it you know in the introduction he

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really says like I'm writing this book

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for everyone for the periodist for the

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housewife for the banker and then you

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know next chapter it if you have enough

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like background you lost now on the

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other side of that Spectrum you find

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something that simplifies the other way

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to match

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um I'm not a fan of what what's called

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today like manifestation or you know new

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thoughts something like that but all

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this uh all the strands of you know

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emergence uh new new religions or

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Argentinian religions or

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um age spirituality kind of come from

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Magic right but they kind of simplify

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the thing too much so in many ways I try

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to write book that

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struck a chord in the middle right A

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Perfect Balance there where you if you

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never if you ever read about magic if

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you never practice magic you don't know

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what magic is I think you can read this

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book and by the end of it

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um which you know it's a fast read it's

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only 156 Pages uh it's not to dance at

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all it's written in very very simple

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English is not my mother tongue yes it's

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always it's big right but um a I think

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but by the end of it uh you'll be able

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to have a good idea of what you need to

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do in order to get some results from

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this magic so first of all you will know

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what magic can really do for you which

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is uh can be seen into uh can can be

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divided to approaches what I call low

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magic or sorcery which is uh I don't

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know I wanted I want a better job uh

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what should I do make sure that the

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Universe conspires with me so that I can

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get the better job I want and on the

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other side of spectrum what I call uh

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High magic or Synergy how a serious

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practices that will change you quite

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grammatical in fact in order for you to

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become the better version of yourself at

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least in this Incarnation right if we

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believe in international you don't have

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to believe in reincarnation as well

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um and of course all of this is tinted

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by My thalamic Philosophy uh telema is a

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Greek word that means will uh

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of course it's also the word that was

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used by Lester Crowley to Define his

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magical and uh and magical philosophy uh

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you can call you can call it a religion

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as well if it's not really a religion

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but you know it can be a religion if you

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want that's that's what philosophy right

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and so

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you know dilemma does color the the

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Western technician and so the magical

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practices with some specific practices

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and some specific outlooks

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um and all of that is in the book

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um it's it's not written for other

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magicians this is something that you

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know I did before and when I say it

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again this this book is written for you

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a couple like study was never done magic

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you don't know anything uh I hope that

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people like you might be curious and

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will try it out right

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um I will also understand the criticism

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that's Urban moved in my direction well

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you know uh from other magicians from

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other tail lights say well it is too

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simple that's that's fine it's written

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for you it is meant to be an

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introduction for everybody exactly like

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really wanted his

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um Uber ABA magic interior in practice

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to be for everybody for housewife for

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the band care for the future list et

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cetera Etc

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um yeah that's it pretty much that that

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is you know just the general idea I hope

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I hope that answers the question

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beautiful yes

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um and I want to zoom out even a little

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further

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um because like I like I said to you in

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Twitter DM like I run kind of a show for

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smart people into UFOs so it's not a lot

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of

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we have a lot more critical thought here

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but this is decidedly not an occultist

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or esoteric show so

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um I would love to hear

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a description of what magic entails in

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this context for listeners and viewers

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that may be unfamiliar with this term

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um and what practice May entail

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of course so first of all when I speak

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of magic uh I use a specific term it's

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magic with Decay which is it's not just

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like you know an old spelling a little

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English spelling of magic it is really a

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very specific blend of Western tradition

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and Eastern Traditions such as

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meditation yoga to a certain degree you

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know advanced level which I only briefly

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touch on the book Tantra

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and this is a specific blend that Croy

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kind of trademarked right and the true

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aim of these practices is

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uh first of all to enable the uh well

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the the Neo Fighter the person that you

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know tried this practice out to discover

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their true will now true will or pure

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will is another important I would say

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Cardinal Point uh that you find in in

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the magical and religious philosophy

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dilemma and in the book

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and that's what I mentioned before right

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trying something that will enable uh a

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new YouTube to one of us to to leave out

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the best version of ourselves

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um there's also a more uh I would say a

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more

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um maybe a spiritual version of it uh

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sorry spiritual understanding of it and

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that's it that you know true will really

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it's something that enables

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you to establish a direct line with the

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godhead and by that I mean in the

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Universal

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um arcade of creation what started

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creation the idea really is that each

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one of us has one direct line with it

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and oftentimes the direct line is it is

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hidden and most of that stays in the

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entire or entire lifetimes right

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for those of us who are religious uh

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maybe religion can bring us closer to

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those moments of religious realization

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where you have you feel that something

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else goes to you uh or if you're a

278
00:12:44,269 --> 00:12:42,480
skeptic and you are an atheist maybe

279
00:12:47,329 --> 00:12:44,279
it's felt that from time to time through

280
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:47,339
ART okay you know whenever you are in a

281
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:48,959
I don't know I'm a musician right I'm a

282
00:12:52,550 --> 00:12:50,639
better player I think it's in another

283
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:52,560
group Player you know when you play the

284
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:54,720
perfect solo I know if you're on stage I

285
00:12:57,829 --> 00:12:55,920
mean I've been I've been a professional

286
00:12:59,210 --> 00:12:57,839
musician before you know moving on to do

287
00:13:01,970 --> 00:12:59,220
other things

288
00:13:04,370 --> 00:13:01,980
um one thing that's really one memory

289
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:04,380
that's improved in my mind in 2007 today

290
00:13:09,410 --> 00:13:06,959
the Coachella Festival in front of 60

291
00:13:10,850 --> 00:13:09,420
000 people and it was like something I

292
00:13:12,889 --> 00:13:10,860
would never forget that you know that

293
00:13:14,990 --> 00:13:12,899
was and that was something that reminded

294
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:15,000
me when I was playing those songs it

295
00:13:18,829 --> 00:13:17,040
wasn't my man I was playing the

296
00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:18,839
keyboards for this much bigger band

297
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:32,629
in 2007 like that was a moment

298
00:13:37,970 --> 00:13:35,519
that I felt something that I felt at the

299
00:13:40,129 --> 00:13:37,980
same time when I'm into deep magical

300
00:13:42,590 --> 00:13:40,139
practices so in many ways this is what

301
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,600
magic should do should allow for each

302
00:13:47,870 --> 00:13:44,480
one of us to establish this connection

303
00:13:50,210 --> 00:13:47,880
now what I think it's important to say

304
00:13:53,329 --> 00:13:50,220
since the the crowd here is pretty much

305
00:13:54,769 --> 00:13:53,339
on the UFO UAP side right

306
00:13:56,269 --> 00:13:54,779
um I'm gonna I'm gonna go on a wild

307
00:13:58,910 --> 00:13:56,279
tangent here but

308
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:58,920
um whatever Stephen Greer is doing you

309
00:14:04,129 --> 00:14:00,480
know with T5

310
00:14:06,769 --> 00:14:04,139
that's kinda is Magic he doesn't say it

311
00:14:09,050 --> 00:14:06,779
he doesn't he doesn't mentions it never

312
00:14:11,090 --> 00:14:09,060
because I guess it's not on brand and

313
00:14:14,930 --> 00:14:11,100
maybe it might scare people away right

314
00:14:15,850 --> 00:14:14,940
but that kind of tried to contact the

315
00:14:19,970 --> 00:14:15,860
draft

316
00:14:21,650 --> 00:14:19,980
what I call as the other right right the

317
00:14:24,829 --> 00:14:21,660
other uh from a magician's standpoint

318
00:14:27,230 --> 00:14:24,839
can be everything it can be fairies it

319
00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:27,240
can be aliens it could be angels and

320
00:14:33,069 --> 00:14:29,880
demons and everything in between right I

321
00:14:35,930 --> 00:14:33,079
the magician I live my Paradigm is that

322
00:14:38,090 --> 00:14:35,940
we are we live in a world we basically

323
00:14:40,910 --> 00:14:38,100
live submerged into Spirit Consciousness

324
00:14:46,370 --> 00:14:40,920
be Consciousness everywhere but we are

325
00:14:48,170 --> 00:14:46,380
our our uh we are ontologically tied to

326
00:14:50,210 --> 00:14:48,180
out of our physical bodies so our

327
00:14:52,370 --> 00:14:50,220
Consciousness is almost like Aggregates

328
00:14:54,290 --> 00:14:52,380
of cultures around the physical body but

329
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:54,300
there are other Consciousness they're

330
00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:56,160
not aggregate around the physical bodies

331
00:15:01,310 --> 00:14:58,860
and they're everywhere right so

332
00:15:04,129 --> 00:15:01,320
um in many ways when I first discovered

333
00:15:06,290 --> 00:15:04,139
first of all that there existed a UAP

334
00:15:08,329 --> 00:15:06,300
UFO Community I never knew that up until

335
00:15:10,370 --> 00:15:08,339
recent years through the you know

336
00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:10,380
lockdowns and everything like oh like I

337
00:15:14,509 --> 00:15:11,760
have so much time on my hand that's the

338
00:15:17,930 --> 00:15:14,519
score was there that's how we both got

339
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:17,940
into it too yeah that it says there's so

340
00:15:22,449 --> 00:15:20,399
much stuff in there yeah

341
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:22,459
I grew up with

342
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:25,199
reading about you know the UFOs but then

343
00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:27,120
you know life as a way of getting you to

344
00:15:31,069 --> 00:15:28,860
other places right

345
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,079
um and so then when I discovered Stephen

346
00:15:35,509 --> 00:15:33,360
Greer which I know it's a contentious

347
00:15:37,730 --> 00:15:35,519
character I'm saying I'm a fan right I'm

348
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:37,740
saying like whatever he does it's mad

349
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:40,320
like literally exactly right it's that

350
00:15:46,430 --> 00:15:42,320
transpersonal meditation experience

351
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:46,440
precisely precisely uh Magic can and can

352
00:15:50,990 --> 00:15:48,600
imagine can be many things right but

353
00:15:53,329 --> 00:15:51,000
magic with the K with explicit the

354
00:15:55,009 --> 00:15:53,339
specific blend of practices uh the

355
00:15:56,889 --> 00:15:55,019
cruelly trademark and that I wrote right

356
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:56,899
about in the book really is about

357
00:16:02,810 --> 00:16:00,000
learning how to fine-tune these channels

358
00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:02,820
and contact the other you know by by

359
00:16:07,009 --> 00:16:04,800
finding your true will by discovering

360
00:16:09,590 --> 00:16:07,019
your true will you almost like

361
00:16:12,590 --> 00:16:09,600
um put together the perfect radio and

362
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:12,600
then you can use this radio to drop in

363
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:14,760
into different Consciousness I would say

364
00:16:19,250 --> 00:16:17,040
this might sound wild but drop into

365
00:16:21,850 --> 00:16:19,260
different time streams into different in

366
00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:21,860
the past into the future where we want

367
00:16:26,750 --> 00:16:24,839
which once again whenever I started you

368
00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:26,760
know getting interested in in the UFO

369
00:16:31,310 --> 00:16:29,160
and UOP community and I started reading

370
00:16:32,930 --> 00:16:31,320
all these various theories about you

371
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:32,940
know is it nuts and bolts is it

372
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:35,519
Consciousness is it from the future my

373
00:16:40,430 --> 00:16:38,040
answer was being it's all of that like

374
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:40,440
as a magician we always considered all

375
00:16:44,810 --> 00:16:42,720
of this it's it's all of it all of it

376
00:16:47,329 --> 00:16:44,820
right there's no like you know from my

377
00:16:48,650 --> 00:16:47,339
standpoint it's not uh this or that all

378
00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:48,660
these things exist at the same time

379
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:50,720
because the universe is really complex

380
00:16:56,030 --> 00:16:54,180
and and it doesn't do simple uh which I

381
00:16:58,490 --> 00:16:56,040
think it's what makes it so interesting

382
00:17:00,530 --> 00:16:58,500
to me I don't know if an answer is I'm

383
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:00,540
sorry I must say I do ramble a lot I do

384
00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:02,880
this is beautiful Marco you're doing

385
00:17:06,289 --> 00:17:04,319
exactly what you're supposed to be doing

386
00:17:09,590 --> 00:17:06,299
which is we ask you questions and then

387
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:09,600
you talk so you're doing wonderfully

388
00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:11,360
um and yeah that's an incredible answer

389
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:14,040
so I'm um just for a little bit of

390
00:17:20,090 --> 00:17:16,079
background I'm fairly new to the UFO

391
00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:20,100
subject in any formal sense but

392
00:17:23,929 --> 00:17:21,660
um very

393
00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:23,939
um experienced and interested in

394
00:17:28,370 --> 00:17:26,100
spiritual emergence and emergent

395
00:17:30,350 --> 00:17:28,380
phenomenology so people that experience

396
00:17:32,870 --> 00:17:30,360
mystical Awakenings Transcendent

397
00:17:34,789 --> 00:17:32,880
experiences this sort of constellation

398
00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:34,799
of exotic and expanded Consciousness

399
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:36,720
that accompanies these practices whether

400
00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:38,520
deliberately induced through meditation

401
00:17:42,590 --> 00:17:40,860
or psychedelics or breath work or

402
00:17:44,750 --> 00:17:42,600
spontaneously induced right sometimes

403
00:17:45,409 --> 00:17:44,760
these things just happen to people

404
00:17:48,289 --> 00:17:45,419
um

405
00:17:50,090 --> 00:17:48,299
and it was so clear to me when I was

406
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:50,100
paying attention to the conversation

407
00:17:54,529 --> 00:17:53,039
into the UFO universe that a lot of the

408
00:17:55,730 --> 00:17:54,539
people are talking about spiritual

409
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:55,740
practices they're talking about

410
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:57,600
spiritual emergence or Kundalini

411
00:18:01,370 --> 00:17:59,760
Awakenings or whatever a term you want

412
00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:01,380
to use that's existed in all these other

413
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:02,820
disciplines

414
00:18:08,090 --> 00:18:04,880
um and it became so clear to me as well

415
00:18:10,850 --> 00:18:08,100
that the overlap between what I was

416
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:10,860
practicing spiritually in terms of

417
00:18:14,810 --> 00:18:13,200
um meditation and the vajrayana Buddhism

418
00:18:16,430 --> 00:18:14,820
tradition

419
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:16,440
um also touched a whole lot of what

420
00:18:19,789 --> 00:18:18,240
Aleister Crowley was talking about a

421
00:18:21,350 --> 00:18:19,799
whole lot of what the theosophists were

422
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:21,360
talking about

423
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:23,840
um so it's really cool

424
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,360
together I would say them I really is

425
00:18:31,870 --> 00:18:29,760
like it stands directly from I would say

426
00:18:35,810 --> 00:18:31,880
Mahayana Buddhism

427
00:18:38,930 --> 00:18:35,820
as well and definitely kind of is like

428
00:18:41,630 --> 00:18:38,940
the grand grandfather of a lot of

429
00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:41,640
whatever happened with the first magical

430
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:43,980
Revival in the in the late

431
00:18:49,789 --> 00:18:46,320
um 1800s and then you know it argentines

432
00:18:51,169 --> 00:18:49,799
early 1900s so yes I mean I agree with

433
00:18:54,350 --> 00:18:51,179
you a lot of people have these

434
00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:54,360
experiences without having to to read my

435
00:18:59,570 --> 00:18:56,760
book or read any book of magic right I

436
00:19:01,549 --> 00:18:59,580
would say that maybe uh practices that

437
00:19:03,409 --> 00:19:01,559
Crowley put together first but not just

438
00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:03,419
him of course like the curly was one of

439
00:19:08,810 --> 00:19:06,600
many in in an image of of uh magical

440
00:19:11,390 --> 00:19:08,820
experimentators

441
00:19:13,570 --> 00:19:11,400
um they put together series of practices

442
00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:13,580
they can't they kind of have like a

443
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:16,140
step-by-step process which I do outline

444
00:19:20,029 --> 00:19:17,760
in the book

445
00:19:22,190 --> 00:19:20,039
um and I think I'm one of the few that I

446
00:19:24,409 --> 00:19:22,200
could go and try to really say okay well

447
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:24,419
you know this practice have a step like

448
00:19:28,010 --> 00:19:26,820
you should go from A to B to C to D to

449
00:19:29,570 --> 00:19:28,020
have

450
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:29,580
um results

451
00:19:35,210 --> 00:19:32,880
those really are a way it's a way to for

452
00:19:37,610 --> 00:19:35,220
people to okay try to let's try to have

453
00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:37,620
make sense of with this one experience

454
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:40,320
that I had that kind of changed my life

455
00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:42,000
like you were mentioning like Kundalini

456
00:19:46,549 --> 00:19:43,860
Awakening it's something that it does

457
00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:46,559
happen to people or you know having

458
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:49,380
moments in on the Dance Floor maybe if

459
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:50,880
you to come

460
00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:53,280
um drugs like maybe something happens

461
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,500
there and say hey it wasn't just the

462
00:19:59,810 --> 00:19:57,840
drugs uh something else something bigger

463
00:20:01,490 --> 00:19:59,820
than me was there with me can I go back

464
00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:01,500
there without drugs can I go back there

465
00:20:07,370 --> 00:20:04,980
without uh without every every other Aid

466
00:20:09,650 --> 00:20:07,380
um I think that what magic does really

467
00:20:11,770 --> 00:20:09,660
um so yeah well Marco

468
00:20:14,870 --> 00:20:11,780
um on the show we talk a lot about

469
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,880
observation versus interpretation and

470
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:17,760
how important that is in uh the field of

471
00:20:23,630 --> 00:20:20,640
like studying UFO stuff because often we

472
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:23,640
can have the most uh conservative

473
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:25,679
Hardline Skeptics

474
00:20:29,810 --> 00:20:27,600
um agree with the nature of the

475
00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:29,820
observation and it comes down entirely

476
00:20:32,930 --> 00:20:32,280
to the interpretation

477
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:32,940
um

478
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,480
but yeah I'm I'm philosophically uh you

479
00:20:40,669 --> 00:20:38,400
know a skeptic materialist atheist all

480
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:40,679
that kind of stuff but we are so focused

481
00:20:45,409 --> 00:20:43,440
in this show on good faith debate and I

482
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:45,419
think that there needs to be room for

483
00:20:50,630 --> 00:20:47,039
all of these conversations and I think

484
00:20:52,850 --> 00:20:50,640
that there's room for benefits from the

485
00:20:55,909 --> 00:20:52,860
practice of ritual and magic and stuff

486
00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:55,919
like that now I just love to hear

487
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:56,820
um

488
00:21:01,430 --> 00:21:00,000
if magic is being directed towards a

489
00:21:04,850 --> 00:21:01,440
purpose if the aim of it is to

490
00:21:08,990 --> 00:21:04,860
accomplish certain effects does it

491
00:21:10,610 --> 00:21:09,000
matter like is there a physical thing

492
00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:10,620
that you're describing that is producing

493
00:21:14,029 --> 00:21:12,720
those effects independent Of Human

494
00:21:17,210 --> 00:21:14,039
Action

495
00:21:19,490 --> 00:21:17,220
um or is it uh almost is there a

496
00:21:21,049 --> 00:21:19,500
relevance there to it being just

497
00:21:22,909 --> 00:21:21,059
directed intrinsically or actually

498
00:21:24,590 --> 00:21:22,919
manifesting something from outside of

499
00:21:26,690 --> 00:21:24,600
you

500
00:21:28,610 --> 00:21:26,700
well that's first of all that's a very

501
00:21:30,830 --> 00:21:28,620
good question and I don't think I have a

502
00:21:33,890 --> 00:21:30,840
perfect answer to that like I can tell

503
00:21:35,690 --> 00:21:33,900
you my direct experience and this is I I

504
00:21:37,669 --> 00:21:35,700
guess this will be always the the answer

505
00:21:39,890 --> 00:21:37,679
that every telemarket will tell we will

506
00:21:43,789 --> 00:21:39,900
give to you back to you because one of

507
00:21:46,850 --> 00:21:43,799
the main points in dilemma is

508
00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:46,860
the individuality of our experiences

509
00:21:51,409 --> 00:21:48,480
right like

510
00:21:53,450 --> 00:21:51,419
we we start from this point that we like

511
00:21:55,370 --> 00:21:53,460
um we can only experience what what we

512
00:21:57,289 --> 00:21:55,380
experience right that's it like I really

513
00:21:59,990 --> 00:21:57,299
don't know what you will see what you

514
00:22:01,610 --> 00:22:00,000
will feel we might seem similar things

515
00:22:03,710 --> 00:22:01,620
but it's not just a matter of

516
00:22:05,810 --> 00:22:03,720
interpretation like something that I see

517
00:22:07,730 --> 00:22:05,820
might be something that you recognize

518
00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:07,740
but in fact we're we're seeing different

519
00:22:13,310 --> 00:22:10,080
completely different things so from my

520
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:13,320
stand from from starting from that point

521
00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:16,080
um it's really all about

522
00:22:21,350 --> 00:22:18,720
trying to

523
00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:21,360
stick to the point of the of the of the

524
00:22:28,490 --> 00:22:25,080
of the magical practice right and see if

525
00:22:29,690 --> 00:22:28,500
you get to a point where you come into a

526
00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:29,700
series of

527
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:30,600
um

528
00:22:34,610 --> 00:22:32,000
of information

529
00:22:37,610 --> 00:22:34,620
that it was not there before like can

530
00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:37,620
you generate from from zero like can you

531
00:22:42,289 --> 00:22:40,020
generate from uh information that was

532
00:22:43,789 --> 00:22:42,299
not there before uh that's that's what I

533
00:22:45,649 --> 00:22:43,799
mean when I don't know if I'll explain

534
00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:45,659
it very well but the point is what I'm

535
00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:46,980
trying to make that when I mentioned

536
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:48,780
before you know discovering the true

537
00:22:55,070 --> 00:22:51,840
wheel or pure will it really means that

538
00:22:56,270 --> 00:22:55,080
you know once you have unlocked that

539
00:23:00,350 --> 00:22:56,280
um that direct connection with the

540
00:23:01,549 --> 00:23:00,360
Divine are you getting new things are

541
00:23:04,490 --> 00:23:01,559
you getting to discover things you

542
00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:04,500
didn't know before and those do these

543
00:23:08,930 --> 00:23:07,020
things like and can you use them can can

544
00:23:10,850 --> 00:23:08,940
they make the difference in your

545
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:10,860
day-to-day life

546
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:11,520
um

547
00:23:15,310 --> 00:23:14,159
so is this about

548
00:23:17,450 --> 00:23:15,320
um

549
00:23:19,130 --> 00:23:17,460
can I then

550
00:23:22,010 --> 00:23:19,140
um share this experience with you with

551
00:23:22,990 --> 00:23:22,020
anyone else and think I can right it

552
00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:23,000
really because

553
00:23:27,950 --> 00:23:25,200
I don't know if it's if it ends up

554
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,960
becoming almost like a solid cystic uh

555
00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:30,240
experience but maybe it is right maybe

556
00:23:33,890 --> 00:23:31,500
it is something that can only be

557
00:23:35,870 --> 00:23:33,900
experienced by by myself or by yourself

558
00:23:38,450 --> 00:23:35,880
or by you know anybody else who's tried

559
00:23:41,090 --> 00:23:38,460
these things and

560
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:41,100
and that kind of that kind of be good

561
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:43,679
enough I guess for me like I'm really

562
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:46,559
I'm not concerned at all as a magician

563
00:23:52,130 --> 00:23:48,240
with the idea

564
00:23:53,810 --> 00:23:52,140
first of all if my views are

565
00:23:58,610 --> 00:23:53,820
um

566
00:24:02,270 --> 00:23:58,620
confirmed by by anybody else nor uh

567
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:02,280
trying to convince you of my loser right

568
00:24:06,350 --> 00:24:04,799
it's so if from a magicians standpoint

569
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:06,360
and we're talking about something that's

570
00:24:10,190 --> 00:24:08,760
a little bit more advanced than what I

571
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:10,200
described in the book because it's

572
00:24:14,210 --> 00:24:12,240
really you really should have done all

573
00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:14,220
the Preparatory work that gets you to

574
00:24:17,810 --> 00:24:15,240
the point where you have this direct

575
00:24:19,010 --> 00:24:17,820
connection with the Divine uh or with

576
00:24:20,630 --> 00:24:19,020
the other whatever you want to call it

577
00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:20,640
it doesn't have to be because you know

578
00:24:25,549 --> 00:24:23,700
Diva can be um a bit of loaded term or

579
00:24:26,990 --> 00:24:25,559
God can be a bit of a little term that's

580
00:24:28,070 --> 00:24:27,000
a bit with the other that's absolutely

581
00:24:30,529 --> 00:24:28,080
fine

582
00:24:32,510 --> 00:24:30,539
the point is there uh that I'm making is

583
00:24:36,010 --> 00:24:32,520
that like once you have that

584
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:36,020
you become you should become kind of

585
00:24:41,870 --> 00:24:40,140
unconcerned with with trying to justify

586
00:24:43,250 --> 00:24:41,880
yourself I I don't know if I'm answering

587
00:24:46,549 --> 00:24:43,260
your question but I felt like I'm going

588
00:24:49,370 --> 00:24:46,559
I was going this way see and you're kind

589
00:24:50,930 --> 00:24:49,380
of getting exposure to both sides of

590
00:24:52,789 --> 00:24:50,940
this show because I'm listening to

591
00:24:54,529 --> 00:24:52,799
everything Marco's saying and going oh

592
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:54,539
yeah yep it's all tracks this is

593
00:24:58,610 --> 00:24:56,280
completely what my experience has been

594
00:25:00,169 --> 00:24:58,620
like I this you're very much speaking my

595
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:00,179
language around these kinds of

596
00:25:05,029 --> 00:25:02,760
experiences and practices but I also

597
00:25:07,130 --> 00:25:05,039
like I don't want to speak for Campbell

598
00:25:09,830 --> 00:25:07,140
but um I'm sure Campbell's having some

599
00:25:12,470 --> 00:25:09,840
opinions or thoughts on this as well uh

600
00:25:14,990 --> 00:25:12,480
well I think that that's uh perfect you

601
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,000
are zeroing in on sort of what I was

602
00:25:19,730 --> 00:25:17,760
forgetting at if there's a if it matters

603
00:25:22,010 --> 00:25:19,740
fundamentally what the interpretation is

604
00:25:24,169 --> 00:25:22,020
if it's not harming anyone benefiting

605
00:25:27,890 --> 00:25:24,179
you uh you know it's like uh just doing

606
00:25:29,930 --> 00:25:27,900
affirmations daily you can quantify the

607
00:25:32,029 --> 00:25:29,940
effects of that you can measure that it

608
00:25:34,250 --> 00:25:32,039
actually produces an outcome even if you

609
00:25:35,870 --> 00:25:34,260
know that there's a placebo effect I'm

610
00:25:38,029 --> 00:25:35,880
not saying that is necessarily what's

611
00:25:39,950 --> 00:25:38,039
going on obviously but um I can see

612
00:25:42,049 --> 00:25:39,960
other things that would demonstrate that

613
00:25:44,409 --> 00:25:42,059
could be uh sort of happening so I think

614
00:25:47,330 --> 00:25:44,419
yeah

615
00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:47,340
like even if even if it was a placebo

616
00:25:52,610 --> 00:25:49,320
effect I wouldn't be concerned with it

617
00:25:54,950 --> 00:25:52,620
right in the sense that uh like I'm in

618
00:25:56,810 --> 00:25:54,960
aerological operation you always have to

619
00:25:58,010 --> 00:25:56,820
set up a goal like what is it you want

620
00:26:00,409 --> 00:25:58,020
to do right

621
00:26:02,810 --> 00:26:00,419
um I'm thinking let's say that you want

622
00:26:04,669 --> 00:26:02,820
to conjure uh an angel or a demon and

623
00:26:06,289 --> 00:26:04,679
evocation magic is quite Advanced right

624
00:26:09,289 --> 00:26:06,299
it's not something that that you do at

625
00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:09,299
first first you have to uh almost like a

626
00:26:13,549 --> 00:26:11,880
first you have to go to the gym and you

627
00:26:16,250 --> 00:26:13,559
know maybe some fat or put on some

628
00:26:18,529 --> 00:26:16,260
muscle uh condition yourself and then

629
00:26:21,049 --> 00:26:18,539
once you've done that and it takes six

630
00:26:23,210 --> 00:26:21,059
maybe a year or two if you do if you

631
00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:23,220
stick to it then you can start trying to

632
00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:25,260
contact other intelligences other other

633
00:26:29,149 --> 00:26:27,480
other Aggregates of Consciousness as we

634
00:26:32,269 --> 00:26:29,159
were saying before right and that kind

635
00:26:34,430 --> 00:26:32,279
of is uh in my my experience kind of is

636
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:34,440
one of the main

637
00:26:39,169 --> 00:26:37,679
um I mean ways you can actually uh get

638
00:26:40,370 --> 00:26:39,179
information get you know receive the

639
00:26:43,029 --> 00:26:40,380
kind of noses that you didn't have

640
00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:43,039
before while you contact this other

641
00:26:49,549 --> 00:26:46,020
aggregate of Consciousness but my point

642
00:26:52,730 --> 00:26:49,559
is that I really am not concerned if

643
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:52,740
these things exist or not right in the

644
00:26:57,529 --> 00:26:55,200
sense like in the moment that something

645
00:26:59,029 --> 00:26:57,539
speaks back to me in the moment that you

646
00:27:01,310 --> 00:26:59,039
know at the beginning of the of the

647
00:27:02,930 --> 00:27:01,320
contribution I'm in the I'm alone in the

648
00:27:04,310 --> 00:27:02,940
room at the end of the conjuration

649
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:04,320
there's something else in the room

650
00:27:08,810 --> 00:27:05,700
because maybe something else speaks Back

651
00:27:10,549 --> 00:27:08,820
to Me Maybe it's not words right uh it's

652
00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:10,559
all that happens in my mind it's feeling

653
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:13,320
so maybe there's a significant change in

654
00:27:20,330 --> 00:27:16,320
the um which that could be actually

655
00:27:22,610 --> 00:27:20,340
um uh they say uh Quantified by

656
00:27:23,450 --> 00:27:22,620
um virus tools like references dropping

657
00:27:25,070 --> 00:27:23,460
off

658
00:27:26,090 --> 00:27:25,080
um temperature right things like that

659
00:27:28,070 --> 00:27:26,100
right

660
00:27:30,289 --> 00:27:28,080
I'm at the end of the day I'm

661
00:27:31,909 --> 00:27:30,299
unconcerned with the idea is this real

662
00:27:33,830 --> 00:27:31,919
or is this that in my head like my point

663
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:33,840
is that am I getting information and I

664
00:27:38,210 --> 00:27:35,520
is this information something that I

665
00:27:39,470 --> 00:27:38,220
didn't know before and by that I mean

666
00:27:41,090 --> 00:27:39,480
um what happened to me over the years

667
00:27:43,070 --> 00:27:41,100
when I experienced well experienced

668
00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:43,080
experimented with the education really

669
00:27:46,330 --> 00:27:44,580
was about

670
00:27:49,789 --> 00:27:46,340
um you know

671
00:27:52,070 --> 00:27:49,799
never ever knowing about this or that

672
00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:52,080
author and maybe this conscience tell me

673
00:27:55,789 --> 00:27:53,400
like you should do this or you should

674
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,799
read that and of course I know I know

675
00:27:59,210 --> 00:27:57,360
that another skeptic point of view could

676
00:28:00,649 --> 00:27:59,220
be well actually you actually knew about

677
00:28:04,310 --> 00:28:00,659
that but it was buried into your

678
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:04,320
subconscious it could be I will I will

679
00:28:12,409 --> 00:28:09,120
never say I am 100 sure that uh what I'm

680
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:12,419
contacting is a demon or an angel but

681
00:28:17,090 --> 00:28:15,120
what what I care about is that am I

682
00:28:19,370 --> 00:28:17,100
getting something out of it and I think

683
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:19,380
that uh I think that that's in this

684
00:28:24,110 --> 00:28:21,600
probably really mentions this in uh in

685
00:28:25,310 --> 00:28:24,120
liver ABA as well it says something at

686
00:28:27,169 --> 00:28:25,320
the beginning I'm not putting verb

687
00:28:30,289 --> 00:28:27,179
dating but it says like you know in this

688
00:28:33,169 --> 00:28:30,299
book we speak of Stafford of planes of

689
00:28:36,110 --> 00:28:33,179
gods angels and demons it is immaterial

690
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,120
if these things exist or not uh what

691
00:28:40,970 --> 00:28:38,640
matters is that if you certain insert

692
00:28:42,649 --> 00:28:40,980
your results follow uh and and they also

693
00:28:45,169 --> 00:28:42,659
say something like the

694
00:28:46,909 --> 00:28:45,179
um the reader should uh it's earnestly

695
00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:46,919
advised not to put any philosophical

696
00:28:51,470 --> 00:28:48,900
validity into any of this so you know

697
00:28:53,870 --> 00:28:51,480
like it's very it's very it's very it is

698
00:28:56,450 --> 00:28:53,880
maybe you did everything right can I get

699
00:28:58,850 --> 00:28:56,460
something out of it and it's and again

700
00:29:00,890 --> 00:28:58,860
um actually you mentioned it in fasting

701
00:29:02,810 --> 00:29:00,900
um is it I think it's important to say

702
00:29:04,970 --> 00:29:02,820
is it something that does not harm

703
00:29:07,310 --> 00:29:04,980
anybody else because of course that's

704
00:29:09,169 --> 00:29:07,320
for me that's a given but I think it's

705
00:29:10,909 --> 00:29:09,179
important to

706
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,919
um say it out loud right because of

707
00:29:15,049 --> 00:29:12,480
course if if the voice is in your head

708
00:29:17,409 --> 00:29:15,059
tells you go kill somebody well you need

709
00:29:22,370 --> 00:29:19,970
in my experience that never happens

710
00:29:25,130 --> 00:29:22,380
though because in my experience like the

711
00:29:26,210 --> 00:29:25,140
other ones once is contacted is actually

712
00:29:28,909 --> 00:29:26,220
very

713
00:29:30,230 --> 00:29:28,919
positive about The Human Experience uh

714
00:29:33,230 --> 00:29:30,240
so once again

715
00:29:36,289 --> 00:29:33,240
for me it's very very strange to hear

716
00:29:40,730 --> 00:29:36,299
all this concern about you know are the

717
00:29:42,529 --> 00:29:40,740
are the UFOs Evo or Are UFOs fingers or

718
00:29:45,169 --> 00:29:42,539
they want to kill it um that's my friend

719
00:29:47,389 --> 00:29:45,179
Peter lewand everybody knows him I guess

720
00:29:50,269 --> 00:29:47,399
we had a lot of discussion that he wrote

721
00:29:52,130 --> 00:29:50,279
the the forward for uh for my book and

722
00:29:53,690 --> 00:29:52,140
we had a lot of discussion on this uh in

723
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:53,700
the sense that he does think that well

724
00:29:57,529 --> 00:29:54,960
you know maybe there could be something

725
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:57,539
a bit nasty out there and I say well

726
00:30:01,970 --> 00:29:59,360
that's never been my experience actually

727
00:30:04,130 --> 00:30:01,980
uh the experience for me has always been

728
00:30:07,549 --> 00:30:04,140
there's

729
00:30:09,409 --> 00:30:07,559
Outside The Human Experience the the

730
00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:09,419
stack difference for good and evil kind

731
00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:11,760
of this this year it's because in my

732
00:30:18,590 --> 00:30:14,340
experience once we are incarnated into

733
00:30:21,470 --> 00:30:18,600
this flesh we see Duality we see the

734
00:30:23,090 --> 00:30:21,480
good and the bad we see uh the cold and

735
00:30:25,310 --> 00:30:23,100
the hearts you know so the other thing

736
00:30:27,769 --> 00:30:25,320
you think as a polarity that's our

737
00:30:30,889 --> 00:30:27,779
experience into this world once you

738
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:30,899
leave behind the Word Flesh and you can

739
00:30:33,769 --> 00:30:32,399
do it in many ways you can do it when

740
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:33,779
you sleep all the time and when every

741
00:30:36,909 --> 00:30:35,279
time you dream you your Consciousness

742
00:30:39,169 --> 00:30:36,919
goes somewhere else

743
00:30:42,350 --> 00:30:39,179
you can do it through module operations

744
00:30:44,330 --> 00:30:42,360
or possibly you do it when you die right

745
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:44,340
and my experience when you leave the

746
00:30:48,830 --> 00:30:46,559
word of flesh is there's no good and

747
00:30:51,889 --> 00:30:48,840
evil it's it's just like just like uh

748
00:30:53,330 --> 00:30:51,899
Consciousness and expanding process I

749
00:30:57,350 --> 00:30:53,340
guess the Buddhist speaking I speak

750
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:57,360
about this that's experience right yes

751
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,960
um so I don't know we got here yeah but

752
00:31:04,610 --> 00:31:02,640
one of the things I wanted to respond to

753
00:31:07,310 --> 00:31:04,620
too is my experience I've never had that

754
00:31:09,230 --> 00:31:07,320
binary sense of good and evil or Angels

755
00:31:11,690 --> 00:31:09,240
and Demons right that feels to me like a

756
00:31:12,830 --> 00:31:11,700
false dichotomy and also I mean speaking

757
00:31:13,970 --> 00:31:12,840
of someone who is definitely not

758
00:31:15,590 --> 00:31:13,980
Christian

759
00:31:17,930 --> 00:31:15,600
um it also feels to me like a

760
00:31:19,730 --> 00:31:17,940
transposing of this very Christian

761
00:31:21,710 --> 00:31:19,740
binary

762
00:31:23,690 --> 00:31:21,720
um onto things that largely exist

763
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:23,700
outside of that or outside of those

764
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:25,200
ideas

765
00:31:29,990 --> 00:31:26,399
um

766
00:31:32,090 --> 00:31:30,000
I was curious about your thoughts or

767
00:31:34,850 --> 00:31:32,100
your views on how

768
00:31:36,230 --> 00:31:34,860
um these kinds of experiences in form or

769
00:31:38,269 --> 00:31:36,240
shape

770
00:31:40,190 --> 00:31:38,279
um creative processes or inspiration

771
00:31:44,930 --> 00:31:40,200
because hearing you talk it always

772
00:31:46,490 --> 00:31:44,940
reminds me of say the artistic Muses

773
00:31:48,529 --> 00:31:46,500
um you know the Muse is inspiring

774
00:31:50,990 --> 00:31:48,539
artists or musicians and I was wondering

775
00:31:55,250 --> 00:31:51,000
if you had any thoughts on how these

776
00:31:56,769 --> 00:31:55,260
practices inform creative inspiration

777
00:32:00,409 --> 00:31:56,779
I am 100

778
00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:00,419
convinced that you know this contacting

779
00:32:05,870 --> 00:32:03,840
the other does bring yeah immense

780
00:32:09,230 --> 00:32:05,880
um influx of inspiration in Human

781
00:32:11,510 --> 00:32:09,240
Experience like humanity is historically

782
00:32:15,830 --> 00:32:11,520
has been inspired by the contact with

783
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:15,840
the other uh it can be you know Moses

784
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:18,960
Mount Sinai saying something and then

785
00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:21,600
coming back with moral and ethical ideas

786
00:32:26,330 --> 00:32:24,840
that shaped our okay or not shaped the

787
00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:26,340
world of the western

788
00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:28,140
um tradition or the Western culture

789
00:32:31,789 --> 00:32:30,059
really for the last

790
00:32:35,289 --> 00:32:31,799
um five thousand years and counting

791
00:32:37,930 --> 00:32:35,299
pretty much or it can be you know

792
00:32:40,610 --> 00:32:37,940
thinking about the for instance

793
00:32:42,769 --> 00:32:40,620
in the in the Irish right in the

794
00:32:46,010 --> 00:32:42,779
rashford corporation which is this this

795
00:32:47,570 --> 00:32:46,020
theory that inspires poets and that's

796
00:32:49,549 --> 00:32:47,580
just one right or the muses of the

797
00:32:51,970 --> 00:32:49,559
Greeks right uh like you would go

798
00:32:54,769 --> 00:32:51,980
Mountain Parnassus and you get possibly

799
00:32:56,269 --> 00:32:54,779
yeah inspired by the by the users but

800
00:32:58,250 --> 00:32:56,279
then maybe the men let's come and kill

801
00:33:01,490 --> 00:32:58,260
you and then because you use so too much

802
00:33:03,830 --> 00:33:01,500
of of the Divine and that you could not

803
00:33:04,490 --> 00:33:03,840
take too much of that right

804
00:33:07,490 --> 00:33:04,500
um

805
00:33:09,830 --> 00:33:07,500
on that note maybe you know this is

806
00:33:13,250 --> 00:33:09,840
something that is true in the sense that

807
00:33:16,610 --> 00:33:13,260
in order for for your experience of the

808
00:33:18,289 --> 00:33:16,620
other to be positive and so in spirit in

809
00:33:19,070 --> 00:33:18,299
spirit inspiritive like we were saying

810
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:19,080
here

811
00:33:24,409 --> 00:33:22,799
you really should try and not uh force

812
00:33:25,669 --> 00:33:24,419
it unless you get to the point when

813
00:33:27,289 --> 00:33:25,679
you're really ready for that and again

814
00:33:30,529 --> 00:33:27,299
this is what is what magic does right

815
00:33:33,950 --> 00:33:30,539
it's not just magic you know uh uh but

816
00:33:34,909 --> 00:33:33,960
this practice will will get you there

817
00:33:39,409 --> 00:33:34,919
um

818
00:33:42,529 --> 00:33:39,419
uh soon for practice will get you there

819
00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:42,539
magically is right you know what we what

820
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:44,640
we created here in the Western and

821
00:33:49,070 --> 00:33:46,559
Western tradition especially in the last

822
00:33:50,450 --> 00:33:49,080
150 years more or less right but the

823
00:33:54,529 --> 00:33:50,460
point is that

824
00:33:56,950 --> 00:33:54,539
um if you try and force uh I mean to see

825
00:33:59,090 --> 00:33:56,960
the other too fast that that could be

826
00:34:02,090 --> 00:33:59,100
detrimental to you not because that

827
00:34:05,029 --> 00:34:02,100
thing is evil and wants to get you but

828
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,039
it's because it's it's the magnitude so

829
00:34:10,909 --> 00:34:07,919
much bigger than than the humans that

830
00:34:13,490 --> 00:34:10,919
you can get swept away it's almost like

831
00:34:16,490 --> 00:34:13,500
you know if you approach

832
00:34:19,609 --> 00:34:16,500
um if you if you're new if you if you

833
00:34:21,829 --> 00:34:19,619
surf and you you want to go uh and then

834
00:34:23,389 --> 00:34:21,839
you know on super high waves immediately

835
00:34:24,970 --> 00:34:23,399
because it's not going to end up well

836
00:34:27,290 --> 00:34:24,980
for you right right

837
00:34:29,389 --> 00:34:27,300
instead or you know the same thing like

838
00:34:30,470 --> 00:34:29,399
I'm thinking about every sport has the

839
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:30,480
same

840
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,560
um one of my teachers this guy called

841
00:34:37,970 --> 00:34:36,480
Michael virtue which some of you might

842
00:34:40,810 --> 00:34:37,980
have heard because he wrote about um

843
00:34:44,270 --> 00:34:40,820
UFOs as well a lot

844
00:34:46,129 --> 00:34:44,280
of graffiti he says something called the

845
00:34:48,349 --> 00:34:46,139
good UFO versus the bad beautiful

846
00:34:50,510 --> 00:34:48,359
experience and you really say something

847
00:34:53,570 --> 00:34:50,520
that uh which can be a little bit

848
00:34:55,129 --> 00:34:53,580
conversion uh but I I know it to be true

849
00:34:56,690 --> 00:34:55,139
because I experienced it in the sense

850
00:34:59,530 --> 00:34:56,700
that it says

851
00:35:04,010 --> 00:34:59,540
a lot of those people that um

852
00:35:06,589 --> 00:35:04,020
report very nasty experiences with you

853
00:35:08,510 --> 00:35:06,599
know early induction experiences or

854
00:35:10,490 --> 00:35:08,520
something similar to that what really

855
00:35:13,430 --> 00:35:10,500
happened to them is that why they

856
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:13,440
chanced upon the land at Zone Parnassus

857
00:35:17,150 --> 00:35:15,359
and they weren't ready yeah and that's

858
00:35:19,550 --> 00:35:17,160
that they're damaged to us right I was

859
00:35:20,990 --> 00:35:19,560
like oh my God this what is that but if

860
00:35:23,329 --> 00:35:21,000
the same person

861
00:35:25,490 --> 00:35:23,339
would go in same experience but maybe

862
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:25,500
with a year of training then they would

863
00:35:30,530 --> 00:35:28,400
see something completely different right

864
00:35:36,670 --> 00:35:30,540
this still doesn't explain the capital

865
00:35:41,810 --> 00:35:39,530
for that

866
00:35:44,270 --> 00:35:41,820
this um this is great I was I was

867
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:44,280
speaking with Petey Newman last week he

868
00:35:48,230 --> 00:35:46,320
writes a lot on Shamanism and

869
00:35:49,870 --> 00:35:48,240
ethnobotany

870
00:35:53,089 --> 00:35:49,880
um and one of the things we talked about

871
00:35:56,210 --> 00:35:53,099
was similar to what you're saying about

872
00:35:58,490 --> 00:35:56,220
how it is an incredibly violent and

873
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:58,500
harmful act to break apart somebody's

874
00:36:04,370 --> 00:36:00,960
ontology without their explicit consent

875
00:36:07,010 --> 00:36:04,380
and ex experience you know

876
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:07,020
um and

877
00:36:10,310 --> 00:36:08,160
um I think when we're talking about

878
00:36:12,770 --> 00:36:10,320
these lineages I mean my experience in

879
00:36:15,530 --> 00:36:12,780
vajrayana right it's not exactly

880
00:36:17,450 --> 00:36:15,540
initiatory but it's similar

881
00:36:19,609 --> 00:36:17,460
um

882
00:36:21,710 --> 00:36:19,619
the point is that

883
00:36:26,089 --> 00:36:21,720
at the heart of this is this idea that

884
00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:28,609
um can be if they're power tools right

885
00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:30,660
you don't just hand them to somebody and

886
00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:32,160
have them go at it you have to give them

887
00:36:37,730 --> 00:36:34,700
sort of the appropriate ontological

888
00:36:40,130 --> 00:36:37,740
psychological psychospiritual

889
00:36:42,530 --> 00:36:40,140
Etc Frameworks to experience them

890
00:36:44,750 --> 00:36:42,540
because they can be extremely intense

891
00:36:47,450 --> 00:36:44,760
um up to and including like complete ego

892
00:36:49,069 --> 00:36:47,460
dissolution and I mean if you read right

893
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:49,079
like like you read reports from people

894
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:51,599
who have psychedelic experiences that

895
00:36:55,370 --> 00:36:53,520
wind up far more intense than expected

896
00:36:57,710 --> 00:36:55,380
and they somebody experiences ego death

897
00:36:59,030 --> 00:36:57,720
or ego dissolution if they aren't

898
00:37:00,829 --> 00:36:59,040
prepared for that and they don't really

899
00:37:02,450 --> 00:37:00,839
know what to expect or anticipate these

900
00:37:04,370 --> 00:37:02,460
are extremely harmful experiences

901
00:37:06,290 --> 00:37:04,380
they're super traumatic they're very

902
00:37:07,609 --> 00:37:06,300
very upsetting they require substantial

903
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:07,619
amounts of integration and

904
00:37:12,410 --> 00:37:09,720
post-experience processing and I think

905
00:37:14,329 --> 00:37:12,420
similarly when we talk about spiritual

906
00:37:16,010 --> 00:37:14,339
emergence in the very broadest sense to

907
00:37:19,609 --> 00:37:16,020
include magic Altered States Of

908
00:37:22,270 --> 00:37:19,619
Consciousness you UFO encounters Etc

909
00:37:25,550 --> 00:37:22,280
um without appropriate

910
00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:25,560
priming and Frameworks to interpret and

911
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:26,940
contextualize what's happening like

912
00:37:32,329 --> 00:37:28,800
these are deeply upsetting experiences

913
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:32,339
absolutely absolutely 100 and in fact

914
00:37:38,270 --> 00:37:36,240
what my my personal belief right is that

915
00:37:40,910 --> 00:37:38,280
a lot of the

916
00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:40,920
um the narrative the negative narratives

917
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:42,900
that come alongside you know youthful

918
00:37:49,250 --> 00:37:45,119
experiences or experience with the other

919
00:37:51,710 --> 00:37:49,260
really that's where I believe in the you

920
00:37:54,349 --> 00:37:51,720
know in the CIA or psyops you know we

921
00:37:56,450 --> 00:37:54,359
know that these people were trying to uh

922
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:56,460
were feeding people with too much LSD

923
00:38:01,569 --> 00:37:59,040
where they're giving them too much

924
00:38:05,089 --> 00:38:01,579
um you know chemicals and whatnot

925
00:38:06,650 --> 00:38:05,099
it's a real thing yeah I mean right now

926
00:38:09,230 --> 00:38:06,660
we know this state happened right it's

927
00:38:10,849 --> 00:38:09,240
not it's not like uh we're not we're not

928
00:38:14,030 --> 00:38:10,859
wondering about it anymore and that's

929
00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:14,040
exactly it right uh possibly we in we

930
00:38:18,050 --> 00:38:16,320
are down to 20 to 23 with a lot of

931
00:38:20,270 --> 00:38:18,060
people that think that aliens are there

932
00:38:22,130 --> 00:38:20,280
or the others out there to to abduct

933
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:22,140
them because unfortunately yes a lot of

934
00:38:28,730 --> 00:38:24,960
of people have been burned by humans

935
00:38:32,510 --> 00:38:28,740
right that a lot of people in the 50s

936
00:38:35,390 --> 00:38:32,520
40s 50s 60s possibly you know after some

937
00:38:37,849 --> 00:38:35,400
very key events uh that forced the

938
00:38:39,650 --> 00:38:37,859
governments uh to say Hey you know these

939
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:39,660
things exist we're gonna have to do

940
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:42,060
something about it now and what we're

941
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:44,160
going to experiment on our population so

942
00:38:47,470 --> 00:38:46,560
that's again this is my personal belief

943
00:38:51,170 --> 00:38:47,480
um

944
00:38:52,849 --> 00:38:51,180
whatsoever right but again go back to

945
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:52,859
Peter people eventually that's what he

946
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,660
writes in his book in since the forces

947
00:38:59,690 --> 00:38:56,880
it's pretty much like that right

948
00:39:01,010 --> 00:38:59,700
um so yeah I I think that if it's

949
00:39:04,609 --> 00:39:01,020
definitely

950
00:39:06,050 --> 00:39:04,619
horrible experience with that again it's

951
00:39:08,750 --> 00:39:06,060
very possible to have horrible

952
00:39:11,270 --> 00:39:08,760
experiences by going to

953
00:39:13,730 --> 00:39:11,280
um a shamanistic retreat done by bad

954
00:39:16,370 --> 00:39:13,740
people you end up in a you know in a

955
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,380
switch uh you know uh Lodge you die

956
00:39:22,910 --> 00:39:19,440
because because you don't know in order

957
00:39:25,970 --> 00:39:22,920
to to go through as well or you have you

958
00:39:27,950 --> 00:39:25,980
have to be fit you have to to go to do

959
00:39:29,750 --> 00:39:27,960
certain steps to prepare yourself or

960
00:39:32,990 --> 00:39:29,760
maybe you go to a higher Oscar ceremony

961
00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:33,000
and and you see monsters because you

962
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,380
know the shaman there is not a real

963
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:36,480
Shaman so he doesn't know what to do and

964
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,220
he just wants the money because it

965
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:41,040
becomes so commodified and so so popular

966
00:39:45,770 --> 00:39:43,920
right I think it's the same thing with

967
00:39:49,849 --> 00:39:45,780
my and what magic really

968
00:39:52,510 --> 00:39:49,859
should do is to give everybody the tools

969
00:39:56,089 --> 00:39:52,520
to explore this

970
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:56,099
vast vistas of the possible at the

971
00:40:02,569 --> 00:39:59,280
employed impossible as well but you know

972
00:40:04,670 --> 00:40:02,579
knowing that as I like to say it's a

973
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:04,680
marathon you're training for a matter

974
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:06,000
and you're training for the long run

975
00:40:09,950 --> 00:40:08,400
you're not training for a Sprint if you

976
00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:09,960
want to you know you want to start the

977
00:40:14,569 --> 00:40:11,820
magic and the next day you want to

978
00:40:16,430 --> 00:40:14,579
conjure Bill IO good luck with first of

979
00:40:18,829 --> 00:40:16,440
all because nothing will happen that's

980
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:18,839
and possibly you would say oh well you

981
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:20,640
know what this is all crap that's so

982
00:40:25,190 --> 00:40:23,520
doesn't work or

983
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:25,200
um like like we did on during the

984
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:28,200
pandemic on my community online when I

985
00:40:31,790 --> 00:40:29,880
started it was like you know by the way

986
00:40:34,190 --> 00:40:31,800
the book comes from the whole series of

987
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:34,200
lessons uh that I wrote and that I

988
00:40:39,470 --> 00:40:36,480
shared with that with my community like

989
00:40:41,690 --> 00:40:39,480
we started with I know 20 people almost

990
00:40:43,849 --> 00:40:41,700
three years ago to date because you know

991
00:40:46,970 --> 00:40:43,859
we here in UK the lockdown started on

992
00:40:49,250 --> 00:40:46,980
the 21st 28th sorry it's March and the

993
00:40:52,130 --> 00:40:49,260
21st of March I started I was at the

994
00:40:54,349 --> 00:40:52,140
time patreon now it's something else and

995
00:40:58,010 --> 00:40:54,359
um now the first one we were like 12 15

996
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:58,020
people and then over the course of six

997
00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:01,440
months it grew up to 150. I mean I must

998
00:41:05,450 --> 00:41:03,300
say that it really helped that I got

999
00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:05,460
sucked into failure I don't know if you

1000
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:07,980
guys watched earlier uh which was this

1001
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:11,280
to me it's like the best

1002
00:41:16,910 --> 00:41:13,920
um you know High strangeness uh UFO

1003
00:41:19,310 --> 00:41:16,920
thing on TV ever well it's not TV on

1004
00:41:21,170 --> 00:41:19,320
Amazon Prime and YouTube and I became

1005
00:41:23,630 --> 00:41:21,180
friends with with the people that run it

1006
00:41:24,890 --> 00:41:23,640
and put it together and yeah so I I got

1007
00:41:26,930 --> 00:41:24,900
a little bit of exposure because they

1008
00:41:28,730 --> 00:41:26,940
invited me to one of their online

1009
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:28,740
conferences and that the thing is that

1010
00:41:33,950 --> 00:41:31,280
from September on things really exploded

1011
00:41:35,930 --> 00:41:33,960
and so you know I started writing more

1012
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:35,940
but I was telling the people in my

1013
00:41:40,730 --> 00:41:38,280
community we will get to the point where

1014
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:40,740
we were going to see something that will

1015
00:41:46,190 --> 00:41:43,920
maybe make your jaw drop but in one year

1016
00:41:47,630 --> 00:41:46,200
time one year and a half time I think

1017
00:41:50,030 --> 00:41:47,640
I'm telling you this because I want your

1018
00:41:53,450 --> 00:41:50,040
patreon money free to go doesn't matter

1019
00:41:56,450 --> 00:41:53,460
but or we can actually stick to it and

1020
00:41:59,210 --> 00:41:56,460
get to the end of it and many people did

1021
00:42:00,910 --> 00:41:59,220
and you see people right now that never

1022
00:42:03,650 --> 00:42:00,920
thought that they could actually conjure

1023
00:42:05,630 --> 00:42:03,660
angels and now they've done it and my

1024
00:42:08,829 --> 00:42:05,640
point is that Angels really actually not

1025
00:42:12,069 --> 00:42:08,839
what you expect them to be

1026
00:42:14,270 --> 00:42:12,079
I'm rambling as usual so there you go

1027
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,280
observationally uh I think it's really

1028
00:42:18,589 --> 00:42:16,560
interesting that people describe very

1029
00:42:20,750 --> 00:42:18,599
similar experiences very important

1030
00:42:23,569 --> 00:42:20,760
profound experiences we have people like

1031
00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:23,579
Nikola Tesla describing something like

1032
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:25,560
what we would in modern terms say like

1033
00:42:30,829 --> 00:42:27,359
information download we have the

1034
00:42:33,230 --> 00:42:30,839
paintings of religious uh individuals

1035
00:42:34,910 --> 00:42:33,240
like literally a scroll being fed into

1036
00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:34,920
their mouth because they're describing

1037
00:42:39,290 --> 00:42:36,960
it as an instantaneous uh you know new

1038
00:42:40,370 --> 00:42:39,300
information emerging so I think there's

1039
00:42:42,410 --> 00:42:40,380
a lot of really good evidence that

1040
00:42:45,050 --> 00:42:42,420
people are having these experiences and

1041
00:42:47,690 --> 00:42:45,060
that they're extremely profound and even

1042
00:42:51,349 --> 00:42:47,700
have a very significantly shaped human

1043
00:42:54,050 --> 00:42:51,359
history repeatedly now in that there's a

1044
00:42:57,230 --> 00:42:54,060
lot of power and we've touched on that a

1045
00:42:58,849 --> 00:42:57,240
little bit the way the people can

1046
00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:58,859
process those things that can become a

1047
00:43:03,109 --> 00:43:01,440
core element of their identity it can

1048
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:03,119
draw people in

1049
00:43:07,250 --> 00:43:05,280
um you know we see good and we see bad

1050
00:43:09,710 --> 00:43:07,260
coming out of that kind of thing so

1051
00:43:12,790 --> 00:43:09,720
maybe we could uh touch a little bit on

1052
00:43:15,530 --> 00:43:12,800
like the the dangers involved

1053
00:43:17,210 --> 00:43:15,540
how do you frame the dangers like when

1054
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,220
something can be so powerful an

1055
00:43:21,109 --> 00:43:19,200
experience like this and it can shape

1056
00:43:23,329 --> 00:43:21,119
somebody's entire life um how do you

1057
00:43:25,069 --> 00:43:23,339
navigate that carefully within that

1058
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:25,079
space

1059
00:43:30,170 --> 00:43:28,079
it's a very good question and

1060
00:43:32,930 --> 00:43:30,180
first and foremost my suggestion is

1061
00:43:35,630 --> 00:43:32,940
always that if you decide to become a

1062
00:43:37,609 --> 00:43:35,640
magician you also have to do something

1063
00:43:39,650 --> 00:43:37,619
incredibly mundane at the same time

1064
00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:39,660
right so that you always balance

1065
00:43:44,750 --> 00:43:43,200
yourself out right you cannot just be or

1066
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,760
especially at the beginning right when

1067
00:43:48,109 --> 00:43:46,319
you when you're just getting started and

1068
00:43:51,170 --> 00:43:48,119
by that I mean the first 10 years of

1069
00:43:52,670 --> 00:43:51,180
your practice because I I mean I measure

1070
00:43:55,250 --> 00:43:52,680
this in

1071
00:43:57,530 --> 00:43:55,260
decades right for me this is my third

1072
00:43:59,630 --> 00:43:57,540
decade so uh like I really think that

1073
00:44:03,109 --> 00:43:59,640
the first 10 years you should have a

1074
00:44:05,870 --> 00:44:03,119
magical practice and I don't know of

1075
00:44:09,589 --> 00:44:05,880
football with friends uh music whatever

1076
00:44:11,809 --> 00:44:09,599
like go to clubs uh girl women men

1077
00:44:13,430 --> 00:44:11,819
whatever you like just like it cannot be

1078
00:44:15,230 --> 00:44:13,440
just that because if it's just that at

1079
00:44:16,370 --> 00:44:15,240
the beginning you as you said you get

1080
00:44:20,210 --> 00:44:16,380
sucked in

1081
00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:20,220
one serious danger that I see and that I

1082
00:44:24,829 --> 00:44:22,079
was that I experienced myself because I

1083
00:44:27,770 --> 00:44:24,839
had to extricate myself in is that

1084
00:44:30,290 --> 00:44:27,780
usually those who really get sucked in

1085
00:44:34,450 --> 00:44:30,300
get sucked in into hierarchical groups

1086
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:34,460
that very easily become cults uh I I

1087
00:44:39,349 --> 00:44:37,200
think that's me that happened to me

1088
00:44:42,410 --> 00:44:39,359
pretty much because

1089
00:44:45,710 --> 00:44:42,420
um you know I became part of something

1090
00:44:49,430 --> 00:44:45,720
called order of empiriens or Oto uh

1091
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:49,440
which is it's also it's a sort of a um

1092
00:44:53,569 --> 00:44:51,839
kind of like Freemasonry for magicians

1093
00:44:56,089 --> 00:44:53,579
okay

1094
00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:56,099
terrible design like that but I guess

1095
00:45:02,089 --> 00:44:59,040
you get the idea and the problem there

1096
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:02,099
is that what I learned is that no matter

1097
00:45:07,329 --> 00:45:05,520
the the intentions no matter the people

1098
00:45:10,490 --> 00:45:07,339
in

1099
00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:10,500
groups that are based around hierarchies

1100
00:45:14,510 --> 00:45:12,660
and groups is about

1101
00:45:18,349 --> 00:45:14,520
um I would say maybe you know super

1102
00:45:20,750 --> 00:45:18,359
rational or illogical uh beliefs can

1103
00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:20,760
devolve into cult status very simple

1104
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:22,920
very very simple

1105
00:45:28,309 --> 00:45:26,160
um I I keep saying I've been saying many

1106
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:28,319
times I don't suit I don't suggest

1107
00:45:32,450 --> 00:45:30,780
anybody that's what if you know about

1108
00:45:34,309 --> 00:45:32,460
magic or not doesn't matter if you like

1109
00:45:36,589 --> 00:45:34,319
Crowley or not there's magic doesn't

1110
00:45:38,990 --> 00:45:36,599
matter if you need Community or not do

1111
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:39,000
not join anything like we live in times

1112
00:45:43,190 --> 00:45:41,520
where you you don't need it you don't

1113
00:45:46,370 --> 00:45:43,200
need it anymore when you're once upon a

1114
00:45:48,589 --> 00:45:46,380
time you had to go to the order in order

1115
00:45:51,050 --> 00:45:48,599
to get more information information now

1116
00:45:54,890 --> 00:45:51,060
is on Google you just have to get your

1117
00:45:56,270 --> 00:45:54,900
Google full up and there's some Marco so

1118
00:45:58,370 --> 00:45:56,280
you're you're touching on something I

1119
00:45:59,930 --> 00:45:58,380
really wanted to ask you about

1120
00:46:02,150 --> 00:45:59,940
um and let me frame up the conversa or

1121
00:46:04,010 --> 00:46:02,160
the question which is that right with

1122
00:46:06,109 --> 00:46:04,020
the Advent of Technology with the Advent

1123
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:06,119
of the internet there's so many other

1124
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:09,119
distributed non-hierarchical places to

1125
00:46:13,250 --> 00:46:11,040
exchange this kind of information and

1126
00:46:15,470 --> 00:46:13,260
connect with other people and this

1127
00:46:18,430 --> 00:46:15,480
obviously flies in the face of what has

1128
00:46:22,250 --> 00:46:18,440
historically been initiatory lineages

1129
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:22,260
and secret practices

1130
00:46:25,609 --> 00:46:23,760
um and affiliations

1131
00:46:27,410 --> 00:46:25,619
and I was wondering if you could talk

1132
00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:27,420
about how the internet has basically

1133
00:46:32,809 --> 00:46:30,240
helped basically democratize a lot of

1134
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:32,819
this practice and information

1135
00:46:37,370 --> 00:46:34,560
okay look what we're doing right now

1136
00:46:39,109 --> 00:46:37,380
like we are we're on YouTube right and

1137
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:39,119
uh we're talking about we're talking

1138
00:46:43,849 --> 00:46:40,560
about things that

1139
00:46:46,010 --> 00:46:43,859
when I started it was you not you have

1140
00:46:47,990 --> 00:46:46,020
to go and find your own book and

1141
00:46:50,270 --> 00:46:48,000
oftentimes the red so this stuff was not

1142
00:46:52,430 --> 00:46:50,280
written down so you had to join groups

1143
00:46:55,790 --> 00:46:52,440
with our kids so you have to you know

1144
00:46:58,430 --> 00:46:55,800
buy into the hierarchy uh in order to

1145
00:47:01,609 --> 00:46:58,440
even get information that there's no

1146
00:47:04,190 --> 00:47:01,619
secrets anymore right I think the the

1147
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:04,200
the 14 I must say that this is the age

1148
00:47:09,349 --> 00:47:06,480
without there is no secrets anymore and

1149
00:47:10,910 --> 00:47:09,359
it's true in the sense that uh

1150
00:47:13,430 --> 00:47:10,920
everything that

1151
00:47:16,609 --> 00:47:13,440
um traditionally has been seen as as

1152
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,619
being gate kept as magical Secrets it's

1153
00:47:22,150 --> 00:47:18,960
all in on the internet right I was

1154
00:47:25,309 --> 00:47:22,160
mentioning the Oto and how you know deal

1155
00:47:27,050 --> 00:47:25,319
uh is a very good idea that devolved

1156
00:47:29,690 --> 00:47:27,060
integral of personality of the leaders

1157
00:47:31,069 --> 00:47:29,700
right now uh but the thing is that if

1158
00:47:34,190 --> 00:47:31,079
you're curious about what the Oto is

1159
00:47:37,130 --> 00:47:34,200
about you can Google it now

1160
00:47:39,650 --> 00:47:37,140
Oto non-degree secret and you will find

1161
00:47:41,809 --> 00:47:39,660
maybe a link to a mega archive that

1162
00:47:44,930 --> 00:47:41,819
tells well that gives you all the all

1163
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:44,940
the documents it is true you might look

1164
00:47:48,589 --> 00:47:46,800
at the documents and say I don't know

1165
00:47:51,109 --> 00:47:48,599
what this means right because it is

1166
00:47:52,970 --> 00:47:51,119
language the same way Alchemy is coded

1167
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:52,980
language right when you look at the

1168
00:47:57,650 --> 00:47:54,720
motus liver when you look even maybe at

1169
00:48:00,230 --> 00:47:57,660
the red book by car Gustav Jung you look

1170
00:48:01,730 --> 00:48:00,240
at it and say okay well beautiful

1171
00:48:04,430 --> 00:48:01,740
pictures but what does it mean and then

1172
00:48:07,309 --> 00:48:04,440
you realize that there is a code and

1173
00:48:09,890 --> 00:48:07,319
maybe you have to sit down and go a

1174
00:48:12,290 --> 00:48:09,900
little bit more and and by that I mean a

1175
00:48:14,870 --> 00:48:12,300
couple of years in order to to get all

1176
00:48:17,870 --> 00:48:14,880
the um all the pieces of the puzzle but

1177
00:48:20,329 --> 00:48:17,880
if you are willing to do to put that or

1178
00:48:22,010 --> 00:48:20,339
that kind of work in you wouldn't you

1179
00:48:24,770 --> 00:48:22,020
don't need anything you need any group

1180
00:48:26,450 --> 00:48:24,780
on the on the flip side uh you are

1181
00:48:28,370 --> 00:48:26,460
mentioning linges right and I'm thinking

1182
00:48:29,990 --> 00:48:28,380
of course uh you know Buddhist lineages

1183
00:48:32,530 --> 00:48:30,000
Central lineages

1184
00:48:36,829 --> 00:48:32,540
there is something that

1185
00:48:39,770 --> 00:48:36,839
the idea that you have to

1186
00:48:42,170 --> 00:48:39,780
there's there's some sort of energy some

1187
00:48:45,710 --> 00:48:42,180
sort of like again super rational or

1188
00:48:48,950 --> 00:48:45,720
illogical kind of fluid that can be

1189
00:48:51,609 --> 00:48:48,960
passed from person to person right now I

1190
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:51,619
had I had this you know passed on to me

1191
00:48:56,990 --> 00:48:54,720
uh and I'm one of the things I've done

1192
00:49:00,349 --> 00:48:57,000
over my life I uh I received a

1193
00:49:02,510 --> 00:49:00,359
consideration as a bishop of the

1194
00:49:04,670 --> 00:49:02,520
um of the Gnostic Church there are many

1195
00:49:08,150 --> 00:49:04,680
Gnostic churches by the way so it's it's

1196
00:49:10,190 --> 00:49:08,160
it's a very vasty but the thing is that

1197
00:49:11,990 --> 00:49:10,200
something was done to me that day which

1198
00:49:13,430 --> 00:49:12,000
is really like you know imposition of

1199
00:49:16,190 --> 00:49:13,440
the hands

1200
00:49:18,410 --> 00:49:16,200
I could feel something passing to me and

1201
00:49:19,490 --> 00:49:18,420
I'm gonna tell you a story which it's up

1202
00:49:21,650 --> 00:49:19,500
to you if you want to believe it or not

1203
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:21,660
uh this would happen to me by Michael

1204
00:49:28,250 --> 00:49:25,200
berkio in his house uh on

1205
00:49:29,569 --> 00:49:28,260
um basically he lived I don't facilities

1206
00:49:33,050 --> 00:49:29,579
there I haven't seen him in many years

1207
00:49:34,849 --> 00:49:33,060
by the time we're talking 2006 uh we

1208
00:49:38,089 --> 00:49:34,859
used to live in the South Michigan

1209
00:49:41,450 --> 00:49:38,099
Avenue Chicago on the 33rd floor and

1210
00:49:43,730 --> 00:49:41,460
thousand level and a very strange house

1211
00:49:45,589 --> 00:49:43,740
um and so you know we go to the to the

1212
00:49:48,710 --> 00:49:45,599
ceremony which is really it's it's

1213
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:48,720
almost like a small Mass there is uh

1214
00:49:52,670 --> 00:49:50,880
there's no sect involved I mean you

1215
00:49:55,550 --> 00:49:52,680
might read some strange things online

1216
00:49:58,250 --> 00:49:55,560
nothing like that like very it's very

1217
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:58,260
philosophical in nature in fact so many

1218
00:50:02,930 --> 00:50:00,960
locations some words fast oats whatever

1219
00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:02,940
and then you know in any musician of the

1220
00:50:07,550 --> 00:50:04,680
end I could feel something possible to

1221
00:50:10,730 --> 00:50:07,560
me then you know say our goodbyes I live

1222
00:50:12,890 --> 00:50:10,740
I go to you know to call the elevator

1223
00:50:14,770 --> 00:50:12,900
and there's a jolt of energy that

1224
00:50:18,109 --> 00:50:14,780
discharges

1225
00:50:20,750 --> 00:50:18,119
like I didn't touch it it was like I was

1226
00:50:23,630 --> 00:50:20,760
almost like bursting with something that

1227
00:50:25,849 --> 00:50:23,640
you know manifested as attic energy I

1228
00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:25,859
don't know like I don't know what it is

1229
00:50:30,050 --> 00:50:27,660
I I'm not I'm not a scientist in the

1230
00:50:31,790 --> 00:50:30,060
slightest like you know my master uh and

1231
00:50:34,390 --> 00:50:31,800
Masters is religious anthropology and

1232
00:50:36,950 --> 00:50:34,400
I've never been a musician in my life

1233
00:50:38,150 --> 00:50:36,960
but you know I could see it I could feel

1234
00:50:39,050 --> 00:50:38,160
it it's one of those things that I

1235
00:50:41,030 --> 00:50:39,060
mentioned before you know there's

1236
00:50:42,230 --> 00:50:41,040
memories that are like imprinted in your

1237
00:50:45,290 --> 00:50:42,240
head

1238
00:50:48,890 --> 00:50:45,300
um so there is there is that flip side

1239
00:50:52,809 --> 00:50:48,900
right that that kind of initiation that

1240
00:50:55,450 --> 00:50:52,819
you know the term in Sanskrit is

1241
00:50:59,450 --> 00:50:55,460
this transmission of

1242
00:51:02,690 --> 00:50:59,460
this material energy whatever that is

1243
00:51:05,690 --> 00:51:02,700
it it does add something to the mix but

1244
00:51:08,809 --> 00:51:05,700
if you're looking for secrets to just

1245
00:51:11,930 --> 00:51:08,819
know intellectually uh what is all about

1246
00:51:14,450 --> 00:51:11,940
right uh you really don't need to join

1247
00:51:17,089 --> 00:51:14,460
anything at all if you want the other

1248
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:17,099
thing if you want the vampire well once

1249
00:51:21,950 --> 00:51:19,200
again it's so easy in this day and age

1250
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:21,960
to do your due diligence and find out

1251
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,000
who's the good teacher who's the good

1252
00:51:28,730 --> 00:51:26,880
initiator and who's the that's a good

1253
00:51:30,710 --> 00:51:28,740
one right

1254
00:51:34,130 --> 00:51:30,720
um of course we live in also in any of

1255
00:51:36,589 --> 00:51:34,140
this information so again maybe it was a

1256
00:51:38,569 --> 00:51:36,599
like this window where things were good

1257
00:51:40,430 --> 00:51:38,579
and now things are starting to to become

1258
00:51:42,589 --> 00:51:40,440
problematic again because you can kind

1259
00:51:44,569 --> 00:51:42,599
of write anything about everybody right

1260
00:51:48,770 --> 00:51:44,579
now and then I'll know if it's or not

1261
00:51:51,410 --> 00:51:48,780
but yeah one of um one of the

1262
00:51:54,349 --> 00:51:51,420
major shifts in my own practice occurred

1263
00:51:56,510 --> 00:51:54,359
when I started to practice in

1264
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:56,520
collaboration and cooperation with other

1265
00:52:01,490 --> 00:51:58,800
people right it was always a solitary

1266
00:52:03,829 --> 00:52:01,500
practitioner solitary meditator all of

1267
00:52:05,690 --> 00:52:03,839
my experiences were just Leah and the

1268
00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:05,700
Divine or whatever

1269
00:52:09,470 --> 00:52:06,420
um

1270
00:52:11,630 --> 00:52:09,480
but as I've I would say over the last

1271
00:52:14,150 --> 00:52:11,640
year as I've explored the communal or

1272
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:14,160
transpersonal experience associated with

1273
00:52:18,589 --> 00:52:16,079
these practices I

1274
00:52:21,230 --> 00:52:18,599
on the one hand I'm so happy I had these

1275
00:52:22,849 --> 00:52:21,240
solitary practices in place but on the

1276
00:52:25,190 --> 00:52:22,859
other I think that there is something

1277
00:52:27,710 --> 00:52:25,200
really

1278
00:52:29,870 --> 00:52:27,720
intense and synergistic if you're with

1279
00:52:32,510 --> 00:52:29,880
the right person or people in terms of

1280
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:32,520
having complementary energy or being

1281
00:52:37,309 --> 00:52:34,920
able to kind of co-create these sort of

1282
00:52:39,470 --> 00:52:37,319
experiences either in a group or just

1283
00:52:40,010 --> 00:52:39,480
within one other person

1284
00:52:41,990 --> 00:52:40,020
um

1285
00:52:44,089 --> 00:52:42,000
and to me that

1286
00:52:46,609 --> 00:52:44,099
um now that I've found that level of

1287
00:52:48,530 --> 00:52:46,619
practice so deeply appealing right like

1288
00:52:51,890 --> 00:52:48,540
having these transpersonal experiences

1289
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:51,900
is really really fascinating to me

1290
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:54,960
um both intellectually and spiritually

1291
00:52:58,670 --> 00:52:55,680
um

1292
00:53:01,370 --> 00:52:58,680
and to me that also speaks to the appeal

1293
00:53:04,609 --> 00:53:01,380
of finding a group you know like being

1294
00:53:08,210 --> 00:53:04,619
able to have like a pool of people to

1295
00:53:10,250 --> 00:53:08,220
draw from to co-create and co-build

1296
00:53:12,170 --> 00:53:10,260
these experiences

1297
00:53:14,569 --> 00:53:12,180
I mean absolutely like you're touching

1298
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:14,579
something very important right uh in

1299
00:53:18,829 --> 00:53:17,040
dilemma and generally magic like one of

1300
00:53:21,530 --> 00:53:18,839
the highest

1301
00:53:23,569 --> 00:53:21,540
um highest possible practices more

1302
00:53:26,809 --> 00:53:23,579
complex practices one can aspire to is

1303
00:53:28,490 --> 00:53:26,819
Sex Magic right and a lot of people have

1304
00:53:30,410 --> 00:53:28,500
this idea a false idea that you know Sex

1305
00:53:32,329 --> 00:53:30,420
Magic is also like getting kinky and

1306
00:53:34,250 --> 00:53:32,339
right yeah it's like slapping someone on

1307
00:53:37,790 --> 00:53:34,260
the air tying them up and that's it yeah

1308
00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:37,800
Sparks Fly it really is about finding

1309
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:40,079
the right person or person that you can

1310
00:53:45,410 --> 00:53:42,720
go to such a deep level of intimacy like

1311
00:53:48,010 --> 00:53:45,420
you were describing can truly co-create

1312
00:53:51,650 --> 00:53:48,020
and then you can actually tap onto

1313
00:53:55,069 --> 00:53:51,660
that jolt of energy that that the orgasm

1314
00:53:57,410 --> 00:53:55,079
brings up which is I mean in my

1315
00:54:00,530 --> 00:53:57,420
experience is the strongest

1316
00:54:02,569 --> 00:54:00,540
um experience we can feel really uh

1317
00:54:05,030 --> 00:54:02,579
sphere doesn't cut it gets closer but

1318
00:54:07,069 --> 00:54:05,040
not really like the moment whenever you

1319
00:54:10,430 --> 00:54:07,079
whenever you really explode in an orgasm

1320
00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:10,440
with a person that that you love uh it's

1321
00:54:15,710 --> 00:54:13,020
that that's like almost like this window

1322
00:54:19,370 --> 00:54:15,720
where you see somebody else I mean uh

1323
00:54:21,410 --> 00:54:19,380
it's the most used in Latin or uh you

1324
00:54:23,329 --> 00:54:21,420
know Liberty more in in French right

1325
00:54:26,450 --> 00:54:23,339
like you know little death that moment

1326
00:54:28,250 --> 00:54:26,460
of uh I can see something is happening

1327
00:54:29,870 --> 00:54:28,260
here perfect

1328
00:54:31,609 --> 00:54:29,880
um so you know that moment where you

1329
00:54:33,710 --> 00:54:31,619
know the the

1330
00:54:36,650 --> 00:54:33,720
um an infinite array of possibility

1331
00:54:39,049 --> 00:54:36,660
opens in fact ideas that you have to be

1332
00:54:41,329 --> 00:54:39,059
trained yourself to then be absolutely

1333
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:41,339
Lucid in that specific moment which is

1334
00:54:47,270 --> 00:54:45,180
very different like you were saying uh

1335
00:54:49,010 --> 00:54:47,280
it's difficult to find people to do like

1336
00:54:52,130 --> 00:54:49,020
that and it's I would say experience

1337
00:54:54,109 --> 00:54:52,140
almost impossible to be fair uh and you

1338
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:54,119
know if you want to like lower down a

1339
00:54:57,650 --> 00:54:55,920
notch a little bit maybe that's that's

1340
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:57,660
very that's the that's the no problem

1341
00:55:01,609 --> 00:54:59,040
solution or like that's the highest

1342
00:55:04,430 --> 00:55:01,619
level even like finding a group of

1343
00:55:06,410 --> 00:55:04,440
people that you like that you would get

1344
00:55:08,030 --> 00:55:06,420
into your invite into your house you

1345
00:55:10,270 --> 00:55:08,040
invite them for dinner invite them to

1346
00:55:13,549 --> 00:55:10,280
stay over right you trust them or even

1347
00:55:14,650 --> 00:55:13,559
even if we you would like to see them

1348
00:55:17,870 --> 00:55:14,660
outside

1349
00:55:20,210 --> 00:55:17,880
uh you know magical space-time because

1350
00:55:23,329 --> 00:55:20,220
you know again my experience when I was

1351
00:55:26,089 --> 00:55:23,339
member of the audio and when I when I

1352
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:26,099
experience are large groups kind of

1353
00:55:33,250 --> 00:55:29,040
pipes uh most of the times I didn't want

1354
00:55:36,849 --> 00:55:35,809
these are not my people right and maybe

1355
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:36,859
this

1356
00:55:46,790 --> 00:55:43,920
is to find your family and it's it's

1357
00:55:50,030 --> 00:55:46,800
very difficult I I almost give up on it

1358
00:55:52,190 --> 00:55:50,040
to be fair uh I haven't completely given

1359
00:55:53,870 --> 00:55:52,200
it because I know these people exist

1360
00:55:56,290 --> 00:55:53,880
these people are the people of my

1361
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:58,549
I've spent the last three years right

1362
00:56:03,370 --> 00:56:01,200
but of course they're scattered all over

1363
00:56:06,109 --> 00:56:03,380
the world right

1364
00:56:07,549 --> 00:56:06,119
there's there's a few here in the UK

1365
00:56:09,950 --> 00:56:07,559
which I'm very grateful to be able to

1366
00:56:13,970 --> 00:56:09,960
see from time to time uh most of them

1367
00:56:19,309 --> 00:56:13,980
are in the US in Canada uh and Australia

1368
00:56:21,770 --> 00:56:19,319
like it's um and if you really wanted to

1369
00:56:24,109 --> 00:56:21,780
to get them all in one place it's it's

1370
00:56:26,750 --> 00:56:24,119
kind of problematic right but then again

1371
00:56:28,390 --> 00:56:26,760
it's either them or I wouldn't I

1372
00:56:30,589 --> 00:56:28,400
wouldn't do it with anybody else because

1373
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:30,599
it's difficult

1374
00:56:35,690 --> 00:56:33,359
to find the right people and again

1375
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:35,700
I don't think you'll find it but just by

1376
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:37,200
you know

1377
00:56:43,190 --> 00:56:41,040
um Googling up uh Oto or rosicrucian or

1378
00:56:45,470 --> 00:56:43,200
armor whatever showing up at the local

1379
00:56:48,290 --> 00:56:45,480
group the chances for you that you will

1380
00:56:51,170 --> 00:56:48,300
find the right person are infinitesimal

1381
00:56:52,490 --> 00:56:51,180
so uh you mess it up for yourself for

1382
00:56:54,970 --> 00:56:52,500
failure and then everything's gonna be

1383
00:56:58,370 --> 00:56:54,980
bad don't be me I've done it

1384
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,380
you're touching on an interesting point

1385
00:57:04,010 --> 00:57:00,240
um and this is maybe part of where magic

1386
00:57:07,609 --> 00:57:04,020
and UFOs in a sense a line both on the

1387
00:57:09,770 --> 00:57:07,619
fringes of uh culture and uh stigma

1388
00:57:13,430 --> 00:57:09,780
attached to them historically

1389
00:57:16,069 --> 00:57:13,440
um often unjustified stigma uh we look

1390
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:16,079
back and um you know I'm interested in

1391
00:57:21,349 --> 00:57:18,720
the Icelandic sagas and I'm aware that

1392
00:57:23,510 --> 00:57:21,359
that's one of the or primary sources of

1393
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:23,520
knowledge about the uh traditional

1394
00:57:29,530 --> 00:57:26,160
practice of um you know Pagan northern

1395
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:29,540
European uh ritual magic and the church

1396
00:57:35,210 --> 00:57:32,160
successfully completely eradicated there

1397
00:57:38,270 --> 00:57:35,220
is no uh broken chain of magic practice

1398
00:57:40,430 --> 00:57:38,280
from the ancient times today at least in

1399
00:57:45,410 --> 00:57:40,440
the European context

1400
00:57:47,690 --> 00:57:45,420
it speaks to the draw that magic has and

1401
00:57:49,010 --> 00:57:47,700
the fact that people come back to it as

1402
00:57:51,290 --> 00:57:49,020
centuries after it was completely

1403
00:57:52,970 --> 00:57:51,300
eliminated and even with that stigma

1404
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:52,980
that always was there would you be able

1405
00:57:59,089 --> 00:57:55,680
to speak a little bit about what Drew

1406
00:58:00,530 --> 00:57:59,099
you into the subject originally and uh

1407
00:58:03,290 --> 00:58:00,540
maybe a little bit about how you

1408
00:58:06,530 --> 00:58:03,300
constructed the specific set of

1409
00:58:08,809 --> 00:58:06,540
practices that you are uh you know now

1410
00:58:11,390 --> 00:58:08,819
um teaching to others uh given that

1411
00:58:13,490 --> 00:58:11,400
there is this broken historic chain of

1412
00:58:16,069 --> 00:58:13,500
practice

1413
00:58:18,410 --> 00:58:16,079
so I was born and bred in Rome and I was

1414
00:58:22,549 --> 00:58:18,420
baptized by the Pope I want to get away

1415
00:58:25,130 --> 00:58:22,559
from it that's that's what was really

1416
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:25,140
um you know what made me want to say no

1417
00:58:28,609 --> 00:58:27,119
that's not that for me I need to find

1418
00:58:29,990 --> 00:58:28,619
something else

1419
00:58:33,290 --> 00:58:30,000
um and when I mentioned I was baptized

1420
00:58:35,390 --> 00:58:33,300
by the pope uh um a lesson a less known

1421
00:58:38,750 --> 00:58:35,400
thing is that if you if you if you're I

1422
00:58:41,089 --> 00:58:38,760
mean if you can go to uh to the Vatican

1423
00:58:42,829 --> 00:58:41,099
and you can put your name down for your

1424
00:58:44,990 --> 00:58:42,839
child to be

1425
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:45,000
um hello

1426
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:46,319
um you know for your child to be

1427
00:58:50,630 --> 00:58:48,240
baptized by the book in batches right

1428
00:58:52,130 --> 00:58:50,640
and also you know my godfather was

1429
00:58:54,730 --> 00:58:52,140
working on the Vatican at the time they

1430
00:58:57,650 --> 00:58:54,740
baptized at scale right yeah exactly

1431
00:59:00,789 --> 00:58:57,660
it's very efficient it's an interesting

1432
00:59:03,289 --> 00:59:00,799
picture of me and my dad has

1433
00:59:04,730 --> 00:59:03,299
it has to be in the stand I should I

1434
00:59:05,930 --> 00:59:04,740
should visualize it it's a fun picture

1435
00:59:08,930 --> 00:59:05,940
anyway

1436
00:59:11,089 --> 00:59:08,940
um my family was not overly I was it was

1437
00:59:13,130 --> 00:59:11,099
not religious at all that that was

1438
00:59:14,750 --> 00:59:13,140
something that just was had to be done

1439
00:59:17,270 --> 00:59:14,760
because it's like a tradition right so

1440
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:17,280
you know I I didn't know that I wanted

1441
00:59:22,609 --> 00:59:19,920
to find I was filled with something else

1442
00:59:23,690 --> 00:59:22,619
like I I was very I was very attracted

1443
00:59:29,630 --> 00:59:23,700
to

1444
00:59:32,809 --> 00:59:29,640
didn't like not so much the message of

1445
00:59:35,230 --> 00:59:32,819
Christ I mean it's great right like be a

1446
00:59:38,210 --> 00:59:35,240
nice person

1447
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:38,220
can you not like that but the point is

1448
00:59:44,750 --> 00:59:41,520
that like everything else you know the

1449
00:59:46,609 --> 00:59:44,760
um to use dick term you know Empire

1450
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:46,619
never end the idea that the oppression

1451
00:59:51,470 --> 00:59:49,440
the oppressing Empire became the sure

1452
00:59:55,190 --> 00:59:51,480
it's the same thing I didn't like that

1453
00:59:57,230 --> 00:59:55,200
so I went and looked for the strange

1454
00:59:58,609 --> 00:59:57,240
um it also happened that you know I grew

1455
01:00:00,890 --> 00:59:58,619
up in a very big house with a lot of

1456
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:00,900
books and without my parents so I was

1457
01:00:06,109 --> 01:00:03,359
reading around and yeah that was that

1458
01:00:08,349 --> 01:00:06,119
was my life experience too look at how

1459
01:00:10,549 --> 01:00:08,359
it could be turned out it was exactly

1460
01:00:13,190 --> 01:00:10,559
reading and you know when you're eight

1461
01:00:15,950 --> 01:00:13,200
or nine and you read very difficult

1462
01:00:19,010 --> 01:00:15,960
different things from Marquis de sad to

1463
01:00:22,430 --> 01:00:19,020
Peter ozimo you know it's like okay the

1464
01:00:23,569 --> 01:00:22,440
word is much wider than uh than I

1465
01:00:25,970 --> 01:00:23,579
thought so

1466
01:00:29,809 --> 01:00:25,980
how do I find it in the sum in December

1467
01:00:31,670 --> 01:00:29,819
1990 by complete chance I was 12. I

1468
01:00:35,030 --> 01:00:31,680
discovered Aleister Crowley in a comic

1469
01:00:36,950 --> 01:00:35,040
book and and the rest as I say is

1470
01:00:39,650 --> 01:00:36,960
history because

1471
01:00:41,809 --> 01:00:39,660
um I immediately sourced

1472
01:00:45,470 --> 01:00:41,819
um his manuals like uber ABA magic

1473
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:45,480
interior practice and uh I mean it

1474
01:00:50,450 --> 01:00:47,520
became my

1475
01:00:52,670 --> 01:00:50,460
my life's work already like at 12 to try

1476
01:00:54,349 --> 01:00:52,680
to make sense of it uh because I could

1477
01:00:56,750 --> 01:00:54,359
not understand a single word it was it

1478
01:00:58,190 --> 01:00:56,760
was written it in in his side I

1479
01:00:59,870 --> 01:00:58,200
discovered that I didn't understand much

1480
01:01:02,329 --> 01:00:59,880
of it because at the time the only

1481
01:01:05,329 --> 01:01:02,339
Edition available was an Abridged

1482
01:01:07,609 --> 01:01:05,339
Edition that the the translator didn't

1483
01:01:10,010 --> 01:01:07,619
know exactly what to do with so a lot of

1484
01:01:11,990 --> 01:01:10,020
things were mistranslated or missing you

1485
01:01:14,690 --> 01:01:12,000
know so in time I realized okay I was

1486
01:01:16,609 --> 01:01:14,700
stupid not that stupid because you know

1487
01:01:18,230 --> 01:01:16,619
certain things were really missing but

1488
01:01:21,289 --> 01:01:18,240
that's the point like I try to make

1489
01:01:23,990 --> 01:01:21,299
sense of it and um eventually

1490
01:01:27,170 --> 01:01:24,000
um I end up I ended up joining

1491
01:01:29,990 --> 01:01:27,180
um magical order the AAA and and I was

1492
01:01:33,890 --> 01:01:30,000
trained into it so

1493
01:01:35,809 --> 01:01:33,900
the the practice that I now teach are

1494
01:01:38,270 --> 01:01:35,819
let's say

1495
01:01:41,390 --> 01:01:38,280
um kind of like an echo of the practices

1496
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:41,400
that were thought to me because uh I do

1497
01:01:45,589 --> 01:01:42,960
the I teach them without the

1498
01:01:47,990 --> 01:01:45,599
infrastructure of an order without oats

1499
01:01:50,210 --> 01:01:48,000
without anything anything like that so

1500
01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:50,220
in many ways I stripped them from a lot

1501
01:01:54,049 --> 01:01:51,480
of the

1502
01:01:56,930 --> 01:01:54,059
the Mystique maybe and I try to make

1503
01:02:00,650 --> 01:01:56,940
them less religious and more practical

1504
01:02:03,950 --> 01:02:00,660
if that makes sense uh and so and also

1505
01:02:05,809 --> 01:02:03,960
you know it also came to me that when

1506
01:02:08,270 --> 01:02:05,819
the lockdown started

1507
01:02:11,150 --> 01:02:08,280
these practices could help others to

1508
01:02:14,030 --> 01:02:11,160
make sense of his you know incredible

1509
01:02:16,670 --> 01:02:14,040
chains that everybody had to experience

1510
01:02:18,710 --> 01:02:16,680
right doesn't matter if you if you

1511
01:02:20,750 --> 01:02:18,720
believe in the computer was real or not

1512
01:02:23,690 --> 01:02:20,760
I'm not gonna debate that definitely

1513
01:02:26,750 --> 01:02:23,700
real I added almost died of it so I can

1514
01:02:30,410 --> 01:02:26,760
tell you it's it's real but uh

1515
01:02:33,109 --> 01:02:30,420
the point is that I knew that for people

1516
01:02:38,390 --> 01:02:33,119
locked into most of the times like a

1517
01:02:40,430 --> 01:02:38,400
tiny tiny room uh to be able to sit down

1518
01:02:42,829 --> 01:02:40,440
you know learn how to control their

1519
01:02:46,250 --> 01:02:42,839
breeding learn how to see their inner

1520
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:46,260
eye even if maybe uh some of some people

1521
01:02:50,329 --> 01:02:47,760
have found it very difficult to

1522
01:02:52,430 --> 01:02:50,339
visualize right and the visualization is

1523
01:02:53,809 --> 01:02:52,440
not something that's uh found in every

1524
01:02:55,910 --> 01:02:53,819
magical practice the other magical

1525
01:02:59,210 --> 01:02:55,920
practice that don't do any of that right

1526
01:03:01,490 --> 01:02:59,220
they're all external but the magic we

1527
01:03:02,990 --> 01:03:01,500
Decay like really goes into like you

1528
01:03:05,030 --> 01:03:03,000
have to start from your inside like you

1529
01:03:07,730 --> 01:03:05,040
have to eradicate almost like put a

1530
01:03:09,950 --> 01:03:07,740
point inside of you from from which

1531
01:03:12,230 --> 01:03:09,960
everything else will spring and I was

1532
01:03:14,450 --> 01:03:12,240
thinking well you know what I learned it

1533
01:03:16,789 --> 01:03:14,460
I learned it when I was you know 1980

1534
01:03:18,890 --> 01:03:16,799
years and imagine age years I learned it

1535
01:03:22,490 --> 01:03:18,900
because I had the uh like I said I was

1536
01:03:24,049 --> 01:03:22,500
living I was quite like a solitary kid

1537
01:03:26,450 --> 01:03:24,059
um I was I was either playing metal

1538
01:03:28,730 --> 01:03:26,460
alone like learning how to play Megadeth

1539
01:03:31,250 --> 01:03:28,740
or I was

1540
01:03:33,589 --> 01:03:31,260
um I was reading magic I wouldn't I

1541
01:03:35,930 --> 01:03:33,599
wouldn't I wouldn't really go start

1542
01:03:36,890 --> 01:03:35,940
going out till was 18 or 19 something

1543
01:03:38,690 --> 01:03:36,900
like that

1544
01:03:40,309 --> 01:03:38,700
so I'm thinking oh look at that this is

1545
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:40,319
exactly this kind of the same experience

1546
01:03:43,789 --> 01:03:41,760
that happened when I was a kid because

1547
01:03:45,650 --> 01:03:43,799
it was alone in my house pretty much now

1548
01:03:47,930 --> 01:03:45,660
everybody's alone in their house hey how

1549
01:03:50,690 --> 01:03:47,940
about we try if that's gonna work for

1550
01:03:52,490 --> 01:03:50,700
that as well and it did right like it

1551
01:03:53,930 --> 01:03:52,500
really did because

1552
01:03:56,450 --> 01:03:53,940
well I'll tell you something that I

1553
01:03:59,030 --> 01:03:56,460
noticed is that you know I mentioned

1554
01:04:00,770 --> 01:03:59,040
this community online and I have like uh

1555
01:04:02,390 --> 01:04:00,780
I would I wouldn't say it's fastest

1556
01:04:04,910 --> 01:04:02,400
Prime because it sounds bad but it's

1557
01:04:06,589 --> 01:04:04,920
definitely like he we have like we we

1558
01:04:09,049 --> 01:04:06,599
haven't done it and now we're going back

1559
01:04:11,210 --> 01:04:09,059
down because of course people are go out

1560
01:04:13,490 --> 01:04:11,220
again thankfully we're not locked in

1561
01:04:15,710 --> 01:04:13,500
anymore but also people find it more

1562
01:04:18,589 --> 01:04:15,720
difficult to dedicate the right amount

1563
01:04:20,390 --> 01:04:18,599
of time to the practices because they

1564
01:04:23,450 --> 01:04:20,400
have other things to do right now they

1565
01:04:25,609 --> 01:04:23,460
have to be different I mean go to the

1566
01:04:28,549 --> 01:04:25,619
movies et cetera et cetera et cetera so

1567
01:04:31,370 --> 01:04:28,559
in many ways that will those those years

1568
01:04:34,970 --> 01:04:31,380
especially I would think in 2020 to 20

1569
01:04:38,089 --> 01:04:34,980
to the end of 2021 maybe beginning of

1570
01:04:41,870 --> 01:04:38,099
let's say 2021 that was like almost like

1571
01:04:44,390 --> 01:04:41,880
a perfect time for to see if if I could

1572
01:04:45,710 --> 01:04:44,400
actually renovate this practices like

1573
01:04:48,109 --> 01:04:45,720
you know get rid of a little bit of the

1574
01:04:50,450 --> 01:04:48,119
Mystique concentrate on what matters

1575
01:04:53,150 --> 01:04:50,460
what you can do with it and see if

1576
01:04:55,069 --> 01:04:53,160
people could get benefits from it and by

1577
01:04:57,130 --> 01:04:55,079
that I mean and I'm not I'm not gonna

1578
01:04:59,990 --> 01:04:57,140
I'm

1579
01:05:02,150 --> 01:05:00,000
you know somebody told me that

1580
01:05:05,809 --> 01:05:02,160
practices that saved people's life

1581
01:05:07,730 --> 01:05:05,819
because you know they you might imagine

1582
01:05:09,770 --> 01:05:07,740
what I don't know what the lockdowns

1583
01:05:12,589 --> 01:05:09,780
were like but some of some of my friends

1584
01:05:15,890 --> 01:05:12,599
were stuck in a room for almost three

1585
01:05:18,710 --> 01:05:15,900
years two years now so in them to be

1586
01:05:20,510 --> 01:05:18,720
able to go inside themselves and

1587
01:05:23,630 --> 01:05:20,520
discover a universe that exists inside

1588
01:05:26,450 --> 01:05:23,640
each of us was life-changing

1589
01:05:28,370 --> 01:05:26,460
um yes there's still a stigma attached

1590
01:05:30,170 --> 01:05:28,380
to Magic but at the end of the day who

1591
01:05:32,390 --> 01:05:30,180
cares right there's stigma attached to

1592
01:05:34,190 --> 01:05:32,400
everything like we live in times where

1593
01:05:36,710 --> 01:05:34,200
everybody has something to say about

1594
01:05:38,809 --> 01:05:36,720
others uh

1595
01:05:41,210 --> 01:05:38,819
most of the times these are usually

1596
01:05:45,710 --> 01:05:41,220
people who come incredibly Ultra

1597
01:05:48,650 --> 01:05:45,720
reactionary neocon Kindle backgrounds

1598
01:05:50,890 --> 01:05:48,660
and and we like them I mean by we I mean

1599
01:05:53,870 --> 01:05:50,900
me but

1600
01:05:57,130 --> 01:05:53,880
yes not a big fan myself either yeah

1601
01:05:59,690 --> 01:05:57,140
you're wrong allies here yeah yeah

1602
01:06:02,390 --> 01:05:59,700
that's good oh uh maybe we could just

1603
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:02,400
touch briefly on something that uh comes

1604
01:06:09,530 --> 01:06:05,280
out of that uh conspiracy culture and

1605
01:06:12,950 --> 01:06:09,540
how uh like magic traditionally was seen

1606
01:06:16,789 --> 01:06:12,960
as a conspiracy culture in a sense right

1607
01:06:19,370 --> 01:06:16,799
like the idea of witches uh conspiring

1608
01:06:21,230 --> 01:06:19,380
to cause harm to the village and things

1609
01:06:23,870 --> 01:06:21,240
like that

1610
01:06:25,370 --> 01:06:23,880
um and uh often times you see that there

1611
01:06:26,630 --> 01:06:25,380
are institutional reasons those things

1612
01:06:28,910 --> 01:06:26,640
are happening it's not about the

1613
01:06:31,789 --> 01:06:28,920
individuals and stuff like that and we

1614
01:06:35,029 --> 01:06:31,799
have in the modern day obviously serious

1615
01:06:38,289 --> 01:06:35,039
issues with conspiracy culture emerging

1616
01:06:40,069 --> 01:06:38,299
in influencing the course of

1617
01:06:42,309 --> 01:06:40,079
developments like on an international

1618
01:06:45,829 --> 01:06:42,319
scale in some cases

1619
01:06:48,109 --> 01:06:45,839
how uh could we separate out those

1620
01:06:49,910 --> 01:06:48,119
things like could you talk a little bit

1621
01:06:51,650 --> 01:06:49,920
about like the modern practice of magic

1622
01:06:55,849 --> 01:06:51,660
that you have described it being about

1623
01:06:57,890 --> 01:06:55,859
influence and uh causing things to occur

1624
01:07:00,109 --> 01:06:57,900
um is is it more like you're trying to

1625
01:07:01,910 --> 01:07:00,119
cause things just for yourself would

1626
01:07:04,190 --> 01:07:01,920
there be a practice where you're trying

1627
01:07:07,069 --> 01:07:04,200
to influence others

1628
01:07:09,230 --> 01:07:07,079
um how does this sort of uh play out

1629
01:07:12,890 --> 01:07:09,240
ultimately

1630
01:07:15,589 --> 01:07:12,900
well magic can influence others

1631
01:07:19,010 --> 01:07:15,599
um it's absolutely true magic can be

1632
01:07:22,010 --> 01:07:19,020
seen as a weapon as usual I mean like in

1633
01:07:23,089 --> 01:07:22,020
weapon can be used for good issues for

1634
01:07:25,430 --> 01:07:23,099
you to defend yourself your cell phone

1635
01:07:27,410 --> 01:07:25,440
can be used for harm you know to to if

1636
01:07:29,569 --> 01:07:27,420
you go and shoot a random person that's

1637
01:07:31,970 --> 01:07:29,579
that's that's terrible right I will not

1638
01:07:34,670 --> 01:07:31,980
say no magic is only good we only do

1639
01:07:39,470 --> 01:07:34,680
magic for good absolutely not in fact I

1640
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:39,480
have no doubts that uh our Bad actors

1641
01:07:45,170 --> 01:07:42,559
out there which could be

1642
01:07:46,970 --> 01:07:45,180
governments or singular people whatever

1643
01:07:51,410 --> 01:07:46,980
like that actors in general that will

1644
01:07:53,930 --> 01:07:51,420
use magic for for uh nefarious causes

1645
01:07:58,010 --> 01:07:53,940
um if you look at whatever is happening

1646
01:08:00,170 --> 01:07:58,020
in uh in recent years in in Russia uh

1647
01:08:01,609 --> 01:08:00,180
Russia is a very complicated topic I

1648
01:08:03,890 --> 01:08:01,619
don't think we can really cover it right

1649
01:08:07,190 --> 01:08:03,900
now but it's definitely true that there

1650
01:08:11,890 --> 01:08:07,200
is a lot of magical thinking that goes

1651
01:08:15,529 --> 01:08:11,900
into this uh imperialism right

1652
01:08:18,590 --> 01:08:15,539
I'm thinking of Russian cosmetism

1653
01:08:22,209 --> 01:08:18,600
um Alexander the magician uh it's it's a

1654
01:08:25,550 --> 01:08:22,219
full magician and he is quite skilled

1655
01:08:28,189 --> 01:08:25,560
and I personally believe it's quite

1656
01:08:31,309 --> 01:08:28,199
dangerous so you know if we look at it

1657
01:08:34,729 --> 01:08:31,319
from a conspiracy uh Theory standpoint

1658
01:08:37,729 --> 01:08:34,739
is that is so so is there is people out

1659
01:08:39,650 --> 01:08:37,739
there getting to uh to get us yes

1660
01:08:42,709 --> 01:08:39,660
there's always been there always will be

1661
01:08:44,030 --> 01:08:42,719
it's the human nature to just be like

1662
01:08:44,630 --> 01:08:44,040
this right

1663
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:44,640
um

1664
01:08:48,829 --> 01:08:46,799
what I notice is that

1665
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:48,839
um in recent years and most especially

1666
01:08:52,910 --> 01:08:50,400
in the last year in fact it's been

1667
01:08:56,450 --> 01:08:52,920
almost like an acceleration of what I

1668
01:09:01,090 --> 01:08:56,460
call you know satanic Panic 2.2 I start

1669
01:09:03,530 --> 01:09:01,100
seeing this happen already in the

1670
01:09:06,590 --> 01:09:03,540
2015-2016 so talking like six seven

1671
01:09:08,809 --> 01:09:06,600
years ago now time for last but there's

1672
01:09:11,749 --> 01:09:08,819
been literally like an exponential curve

1673
01:09:15,610 --> 01:09:11,759
in the last year of

1674
01:09:20,150 --> 01:09:15,620
um Ultra reactionary usually you know

1675
01:09:20,829 --> 01:09:20,160
ultra-christian groups or you know

1676
01:09:24,349 --> 01:09:20,839
um

1677
01:09:26,689 --> 01:09:24,359
investigators that have been once again

1678
01:09:27,769 --> 01:09:26,699
putting the blame of everything that

1679
01:09:31,010 --> 01:09:27,779
happens

1680
01:09:33,650 --> 01:09:31,020
on Magic and Magic practitioners I get

1681
01:09:35,390 --> 01:09:33,660
refer to uh I'm particularly stigmatized

1682
01:09:37,910 --> 01:09:35,400
because I'm development so Crowley it's

1683
01:09:40,130 --> 01:09:37,920
always like the source of all evil uh if

1684
01:09:43,070 --> 01:09:40,140
you if anybody wants to have a love you

1685
01:09:45,169 --> 01:09:43,080
can go and scroll on my Twitter feed a

1686
01:09:47,450 --> 01:09:45,179
few days ago I'm not gonna name names

1687
01:09:49,090 --> 01:09:47,460
but there's a little bit of a of an

1688
01:09:51,890 --> 01:09:49,100
interaction with one of these characters

1689
01:09:55,189 --> 01:09:51,900
and the reason is that you cannot reason

1690
01:09:56,990 --> 01:09:55,199
with them because oh right yeah that's

1691
01:09:58,850 --> 01:09:57,000
that's the biggest mistake of liberalism

1692
01:10:00,729 --> 01:09:58,860
is thinking it can reason with fascist

1693
01:10:03,229 --> 01:10:00,739
thoughts yeah

1694
01:10:05,870 --> 01:10:03,239
you're among friends here Marco I I

1695
01:10:09,470 --> 01:10:05,880
promise that's that's why I don't call

1696
01:10:11,150 --> 01:10:09,480
myself a liberal because yeah I will not

1697
01:10:13,870 --> 01:10:11,160
reason with them I will do something

1698
01:10:17,689 --> 01:10:13,880
else YouTube Friends

1699
01:10:19,130 --> 01:10:17,699
yes you know that's the thing like you

1700
01:10:22,669 --> 01:10:19,140
could not listen to these people because

1701
01:10:26,090 --> 01:10:22,679
you know their idea is that

1702
01:10:28,070 --> 01:10:26,100
there they have the truth and they they

1703
01:10:30,649 --> 01:10:28,080
go their food you know Jesus Christ

1704
01:10:33,470 --> 01:10:30,659
which is whatever right and everything

1705
01:10:36,470 --> 01:10:33,480
else as it's fake you're lying to them

1706
01:10:38,689 --> 01:10:36,480
it's not true you're evil and they're

1707
01:10:40,370 --> 01:10:38,699
not gonna say it but if you possibly

1708
01:10:43,850 --> 01:10:40,380
could get burned at the stake them great

1709
01:10:46,130 --> 01:10:43,860
as well right so I think that's the big

1710
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:46,140
problem in the sense that our society

1711
01:10:49,790 --> 01:10:48,300
became incredibly polarized in recent

1712
01:10:52,130 --> 01:10:49,800
years and there's no learning back from

1713
01:10:54,610 --> 01:10:52,140
that like you cannot that's not gonna

1714
01:10:58,030 --> 01:10:54,620
continue fracturing it's not going away

1715
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:01,010
please please don't don't tort me well

1716
01:11:04,250 --> 01:11:02,400
they're not going to touch you today but

1717
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:04,260
eventually it didn't come for you as

1718
01:11:11,570 --> 01:11:08,640
well right yes um so yeah this um this

1719
01:11:13,370 --> 01:11:11,580
is a dynamic of reflecting on a lot um

1720
01:11:15,770 --> 01:11:13,380
I've been

1721
01:11:20,149 --> 01:11:15,780
a participant in a number of leftist

1722
01:11:22,610 --> 01:11:20,159
spaces and communities and there seems

1723
01:11:24,950 --> 01:11:22,620
to be this Missing Link on the certainly

1724
01:11:26,990 --> 01:11:24,960
in the American left around spirituality

1725
01:11:30,709 --> 01:11:27,000
and mysticism and it has very much

1726
01:11:33,290 --> 01:11:30,719
become the purview of the alt-right or

1727
01:11:34,490 --> 01:11:33,300
of authoritarian or totalitarian style

1728
01:11:36,410 --> 01:11:34,500
thinking

1729
01:11:39,590 --> 01:11:36,420
and I'm very curious

1730
01:11:42,290 --> 01:11:39,600
um as someone who is aware of the

1731
01:11:43,370 --> 01:11:42,300
encroachment of the alt-right onto these

1732
01:11:45,709 --> 01:11:43,380
ideas

1733
01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:45,719
how do you navigate it what are your

1734
01:11:48,890 --> 01:11:46,800
thoughts on

1735
01:11:51,169 --> 01:11:48,900
participating in these practices and

1736
01:11:52,010 --> 01:11:51,179
using these practices

1737
01:11:53,870 --> 01:11:52,020
um

1738
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:53,880
while also

1739
01:11:57,530 --> 01:11:54,480
um

1740
01:11:59,330 --> 01:11:57,540
I would say trying to do the good work

1741
01:12:02,630 --> 01:11:59,340
of

1742
01:12:05,209 --> 01:12:02,640
if not addressing at least avoiding the

1743
01:12:06,950 --> 01:12:05,219
kind of fascist tendencies that can show

1744
01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:06,960
up

1745
01:12:12,110 --> 01:12:10,560
so first of all I'd like to say that um

1746
01:12:14,390 --> 01:12:12,120
you know I mentioned earlier on before

1747
01:12:16,310 --> 01:12:14,400
that I was memorable and then I left I

1748
01:12:18,830 --> 01:12:16,320
left because of hierarchical problems

1749
01:12:20,510 --> 01:12:18,840
you know it always becomes nepotism but

1750
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:20,520
also because I found out that the bad

1751
01:12:25,729 --> 01:12:22,800
encroachment of the alt-right was more

1752
01:12:28,669 --> 01:12:25,739
like a cancer in metastasis in the otfs

1753
01:12:30,890 --> 01:12:28,679
right people at the top were fully

1754
01:12:34,970 --> 01:12:30,900
endorsing and I'm not even talking about

1755
01:12:38,930 --> 01:12:34,980
you know from fans for Trump voters back

1756
01:12:40,189 --> 01:12:38,940
in the 2016 election and the years have

1757
01:12:43,010 --> 01:12:40,199
followed and I'm talking about people

1758
01:12:45,470 --> 01:12:43,020
that using that as a you know jumpstart

1759
01:12:48,050 --> 01:12:45,480
to go into white supremacy and going

1760
01:12:50,689 --> 01:12:48,060
into you know all the horrible things

1761
01:12:53,450 --> 01:12:50,699
that we're all very aware of how do you

1762
01:12:54,890 --> 01:12:53,460
do you deal with it uh I don't think I

1763
01:12:56,390 --> 01:12:54,900
have the perfect answer right because as

1764
01:12:59,689 --> 01:12:56,400
I said before you cannot reason with

1765
01:13:02,870 --> 01:12:59,699
them but you but is that what you can do

1766
01:13:04,970 --> 01:13:02,880
is that well first of all uh I'm always

1767
01:13:06,530 --> 01:13:04,980
trying to be everywhere to keep telling

1768
01:13:09,770 --> 01:13:06,540
people the magic is something different

1769
01:13:11,510 --> 01:13:09,780
magic is not the devil's work even if we

1770
01:13:13,250 --> 01:13:11,520
like the devil like because we like

1771
01:13:16,850 --> 01:13:13,260
everything that's you know outside the

1772
01:13:18,830 --> 01:13:16,860
other but magic is not also the uh

1773
01:13:22,310 --> 01:13:18,840
exclusive

1774
01:13:25,490 --> 01:13:22,320
um religion or philosophy metaphysical

1775
01:13:27,709 --> 01:13:25,500
philosophy of the of the right a lot of

1776
01:13:32,030 --> 01:13:27,719
I mean did we've been here before right

1777
01:13:34,370 --> 01:13:32,040
uh in Italy we had ju savola which was a

1778
01:13:36,530 --> 01:13:34,380
fascist and he was trying to do exactly

1779
01:13:39,410 --> 01:13:36,540
the same thing back in the day when Ash

1780
01:13:41,330 --> 01:13:39,420
is flashes 1.0 happened right

1781
01:13:43,669 --> 01:13:41,340
um and we always had the ultra reaction

1782
01:13:45,470 --> 01:13:43,679
or as a perennialist uh the

1783
01:13:46,850 --> 01:13:45,480
traditionalists we all said that right

1784
01:13:50,090 --> 01:13:46,860
and

1785
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:50,100
the way I go about it is really that I I

1786
01:13:55,070 --> 01:13:52,560
know quarter to them in the sense that I

1787
01:13:56,570 --> 01:13:55,080
will always always calculate everybody

1788
01:13:58,430 --> 01:13:56,580
out

1789
01:14:02,750 --> 01:13:58,440
um and by that I mean every time I see

1790
01:14:04,550 --> 01:14:02,760
even the the slides with of stove or if

1791
01:14:05,510 --> 01:14:04,560
you want to go like that I would say I

1792
01:14:08,689 --> 01:14:05,520
was going to say something else but

1793
01:14:10,550 --> 01:14:08,699
let's keep it like spoofer uh I I would

1794
01:14:12,169 --> 01:14:10,560
just call it out um of course this

1795
01:14:14,090 --> 01:14:12,179
create a lot of problems in the sense

1796
01:14:16,550 --> 01:14:14,100
that first of all in this um not

1797
01:14:18,830 --> 01:14:16,560
problems like physical problems uh I'm

1798
01:14:20,510 --> 01:14:18,840
not overly concerned about that maybe

1799
01:14:22,790 --> 01:14:20,520
because I'm big and I can defend myself

1800
01:14:24,830 --> 01:14:22,800
but also because I don't live in you

1801
01:14:26,890 --> 01:14:24,840
know in country where people have access

1802
01:14:29,930 --> 01:14:26,900
to Farms

1803
01:14:32,510 --> 01:14:29,940
yeah yeah I would be more concerned in

1804
01:14:33,830 --> 01:14:32,520
the United States absolutely but also

1805
01:14:35,570 --> 01:14:33,840
because you know

1806
01:14:37,390 --> 01:14:35,580
um I've always been a public person like

1807
01:14:40,189 --> 01:14:37,400
I was when I was a musician you know

1808
01:14:42,590 --> 01:14:40,199
every time you walk on stage you you

1809
01:14:43,130 --> 01:14:42,600
know that something can happen right

1810
01:14:45,709 --> 01:14:43,140
um

1811
01:14:47,570 --> 01:14:45,719
so you you go you have to be present you

1812
01:14:48,890 --> 01:14:47,580
have to say you always have to to keep

1813
01:14:49,970 --> 01:14:48,900
your

1814
01:14:51,950 --> 01:14:49,980
um

1815
01:14:54,050 --> 01:14:51,960
your narrative going in a sense and that

1816
01:14:56,870 --> 01:14:54,060
maybe it's a problem because it implies

1817
01:14:59,030 --> 01:14:56,880
uh let's keep it like that right so you

1818
01:15:02,689 --> 01:14:59,040
you just have two words and the thing is

1819
01:15:04,189 --> 01:15:02,699
that people will will people fight back

1820
01:15:06,350 --> 01:15:04,199
um right people will argue with you

1821
01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:06,360
about it right yeah but they will see

1822
01:15:11,930 --> 01:15:09,120
their views as you know why don't you

1823
01:15:14,209 --> 01:15:11,940
tolerate me you're so intolerant I I've

1824
01:15:18,290 --> 01:15:14,219
lived this way I had I had a major full

1825
01:15:20,510 --> 01:15:18,300
out with a great big I'm not gonna name

1826
01:15:22,250 --> 01:15:20,520
it just because you know rather big

1827
01:15:25,149 --> 01:15:22,260
author in the

1828
01:15:28,010 --> 01:15:25,159
um in the esoteric word this is the guy

1829
01:15:30,229 --> 01:15:28,020
that spent the last 10 years starting

1830
01:15:32,030 --> 01:15:30,239
chaos magic and started the last 10

1831
01:15:35,810 --> 01:15:32,040
years speaking about you know building a

1832
01:15:38,810 --> 01:15:35,820
better world permaculture uh I'm going

1833
01:15:41,570 --> 01:15:38,820
to live in uh you know in Tasmania like

1834
01:15:44,209 --> 01:15:41,580
building a farm all this thing and lo

1835
01:15:47,390 --> 01:15:44,219
and be old it became pretty much an ego

1836
01:15:50,450 --> 01:15:47,400
fascist and it's like and he will never

1837
01:15:53,390 --> 01:15:50,460
ever relent from from his position he's

1838
01:15:55,490 --> 01:15:53,400
been spending the last six months uh

1839
01:15:57,110 --> 01:15:55,500
pretty much like explaining to his

1840
01:16:00,890 --> 01:15:57,120
following

1841
01:16:04,130 --> 01:16:00,900
uh that basically we are living uh the

1842
01:16:06,229 --> 01:16:04,140
full luminor in the token set which is

1843
01:16:10,070 --> 01:16:06,239
exactly what the fascist used to say by

1844
01:16:11,990 --> 01:16:10,080
the way in Italy fascism has a love

1845
01:16:14,630 --> 01:16:12,000
story with Tolkien I mean I love pokien

1846
01:16:17,870 --> 01:16:14,640
but don't get me wrong I love it but in

1847
01:16:21,110 --> 01:16:17,880
Italy if you were born in Rome uh you as

1848
01:16:23,270 --> 01:16:21,120
a as a god kid eventually when I started

1849
01:16:25,910 --> 01:16:23,280
going out became a girl kid I helped

1850
01:16:28,250 --> 01:16:25,920
that to to fight with the fascists in

1851
01:16:29,030 --> 01:16:28,260
Rome that were coming from this group it

1852
01:16:32,350 --> 01:16:29,040
is

1853
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:32,360
um uh occupied space called ASAP

1854
01:16:38,090 --> 01:16:35,040
house yep I know about I know all about

1855
01:16:40,370 --> 01:16:38,100
this and that's about basically it has

1856
01:16:42,470 --> 01:16:40,380
it basically it's all about the the

1857
01:16:45,229 --> 01:16:42,480
glorification of Tolkien because this

1858
01:16:47,750 --> 01:16:45,239
idea of the white race of the purity of

1859
01:16:50,810 --> 01:16:47,760
the races of the Union winning the gods

1860
01:16:52,430 --> 01:16:50,820
of welcome man and build this author

1861
01:16:55,250 --> 01:16:52,440
right now that lives in Tasmania is a

1862
01:16:56,689 --> 01:16:55,260
permaculture Aficionado so good things

1863
01:16:57,470 --> 01:16:56,699
right

1864
01:16:59,870 --> 01:16:57,480
um

1865
01:17:02,330 --> 01:16:59,880
I was now sudden it's all about Tolkien

1866
01:17:03,470 --> 01:17:02,340
and so about you know the evil which is

1867
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:03,480
pretty much everybody doesn't agree with

1868
01:17:09,950 --> 01:17:08,159
him right is uh is uh is is coming at

1869
01:17:12,350 --> 01:17:09,960
the door and it is that you you have to

1870
01:17:14,990 --> 01:17:12,360
keep you have to keep calling out it it

1871
01:17:16,970 --> 01:17:15,000
will it will make you feel like uh maybe

1872
01:17:19,490 --> 01:17:16,980
like a barrier but that's what it is

1873
01:17:21,530 --> 01:17:19,500
like you cannot do that you cannot like

1874
01:17:24,550 --> 01:17:21,540
just let this thing rest because and

1875
01:17:27,110 --> 01:17:24,560
there's a lot of this in in my community

1876
01:17:28,970 --> 01:17:27,120
it's such an English Community like you

1877
01:17:30,830 --> 01:17:28,980
were saying humble it's there's so much

1878
01:17:33,169 --> 01:17:30,840
stigma about it so not many people want

1879
01:17:34,669 --> 01:17:33,179
to be open about it but then there's

1880
01:17:36,950 --> 01:17:34,679
something else that happens and what

1881
01:17:39,590 --> 01:17:36,960
happens is that since it's niche but it

1882
01:17:41,810 --> 01:17:39,600
kind of went through a Revival of recent

1883
01:17:44,090 --> 01:17:41,820
Years A lot of people start to make

1884
01:17:46,490 --> 01:17:44,100
money out of it you know I mean I'm a

1885
01:17:47,810 --> 01:17:46,500
person selling courses right and but it

1886
01:17:49,610 --> 01:17:47,820
does it does work like people are

1887
01:17:51,110 --> 01:17:49,620
interested in that but that is a lot of

1888
01:17:54,770 --> 01:17:51,120
people that publish this book and maybe

1889
01:17:56,510 --> 01:17:54,780
people that sell book and so when this

1890
01:17:58,130 --> 01:17:56,520
business the business side comes in

1891
01:18:00,950 --> 01:17:58,140
everybody wants to keep selling to

1892
01:18:02,930 --> 01:18:00,960
everybody and I have a lot of problems

1893
01:18:05,330 --> 01:18:02,940
with that right when you come to my

1894
01:18:07,510 --> 01:18:05,340
website it's written in clear terms like

1895
01:18:14,050 --> 01:18:07,520
if you if you don't believe Kobe exists

1896
01:18:19,610 --> 01:18:17,090
don't sign to my courses right and I did

1897
01:18:21,530 --> 01:18:19,620
and I did lose Revenue I can tell you

1898
01:18:24,169 --> 01:18:21,540
about that people did con I really

1899
01:18:25,550 --> 01:18:24,179
wanted to sign up to your course on for

1900
01:18:27,890 --> 01:18:25,560
six months and giving you I don't know

1901
01:18:29,810 --> 01:18:27,900
500 pounds but uh I'm not gonna do it

1902
01:18:31,370 --> 01:18:29,820
because I felt the fat I was like oh you

1903
01:18:33,709 --> 01:18:31,380
did everything it was not the best for

1904
01:18:38,030 --> 01:18:35,510
it's awesome

1905
01:18:40,189 --> 01:18:38,040
um but unfortunately you know I've seen

1906
01:18:41,590 --> 01:18:40,199
maybe also maybe especially here in the

1907
01:18:45,290 --> 01:18:41,600
UK where everybody

1908
01:18:47,149 --> 01:18:45,300
values uh um external appearances more

1909
01:18:49,610 --> 01:18:47,159
than you know being frank

1910
01:18:51,530 --> 01:18:49,620
britishness after all

1911
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:51,540
um I've seen a lot of people you know

1912
01:18:57,649 --> 01:18:55,199
trying to make excuses for this or that

1913
01:19:01,010 --> 01:18:57,659
person because they sell books

1914
01:19:02,750 --> 01:19:01,020
expert Dimension is by all means one of

1915
01:19:05,450 --> 01:19:02,760
the biggest teller like one of his books

1916
01:19:07,550 --> 01:19:05,460
sold 15 000 Kobe which is right insane

1917
01:19:09,470 --> 01:19:07,560
like no you don't sell

1918
01:19:11,209 --> 01:19:09,480
and Marco we run into this in the

1919
01:19:13,010 --> 01:19:11,219
ufology community all the time which is

1920
01:19:15,709 --> 01:19:13,020
that people's preoccupation with the

1921
01:19:18,590 --> 01:19:15,719
subject supersedes and overrides any

1922
01:19:22,490 --> 01:19:18,600
other particular value they may have

1923
01:19:24,950 --> 01:19:22,500
right we see it's it's become a subject

1924
01:19:26,930 --> 01:19:24,960
du jour with a huge number of alt-right

1925
01:19:28,970 --> 01:19:26,940
and ultra-right politicians and

1926
01:19:31,550 --> 01:19:28,980
individuals and people that really care

1927
01:19:33,830 --> 01:19:31,560
about UFOs don't care because at least

1928
01:19:36,830 --> 01:19:33,840
someone's talking about UFO I mean for

1929
01:19:38,810 --> 01:19:36,840
me it's absolutely yeah like like I

1930
01:19:41,390 --> 01:19:38,820
think I've seen this in passive

1931
01:19:42,890 --> 01:19:41,400
impossible like uh people are saying oh

1932
01:19:45,770 --> 01:19:42,900
you know Tucker Carlson is speaking

1933
01:19:48,410 --> 01:19:45,780
about UFOs it's so good it's like are

1934
01:19:53,649 --> 01:19:48,420
you mad like right why would you want or

1935
01:20:00,050 --> 01:19:56,450
a picture of Russell Brand which some of

1936
01:20:02,090 --> 01:20:00,060
you may know uh with uh with Trump Jr I

1937
01:20:04,729 --> 01:20:02,100
was like okay this is like this is

1938
01:20:06,370 --> 01:20:04,739
basically yeah spirituality uh to

1939
01:20:08,689 --> 01:20:06,380
Fascism

1940
01:20:11,030 --> 01:20:08,699
like in a picture right here yeah

1941
01:20:12,530 --> 01:20:11,040
anything like if you if you don't have

1942
01:20:16,010 --> 01:20:12,540
problems with that

1943
01:20:19,070 --> 01:20:16,020
you need to reevaluate yes your your

1944
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:19,080
life really right yes neutrality in

1945
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:21,360
these circumstances is complicity

1946
01:20:26,149 --> 01:20:23,520
absolutely absolutely like silence

1947
01:20:30,470 --> 01:20:26,159
always benefits the oppressor not the

1948
01:20:31,850 --> 01:20:30,480
best always that's how it is and um I

1949
01:20:33,770 --> 01:20:31,860
have a problem with that that also means

1950
01:20:35,810 --> 01:20:33,780
that likely my courses are not gonna

1951
01:20:37,850 --> 01:20:35,820
sell much more than I do or my book

1952
01:20:40,490 --> 01:20:37,860
won't sell much more because oh Michael

1953
01:20:41,630 --> 01:20:40,500
you're so opinionated yes you're so

1954
01:20:46,669 --> 01:20:41,640
political

1955
01:20:49,790 --> 01:20:46,679
you know like if this were like the

1956
01:20:52,370 --> 01:20:49,800
2000s where uh there was it was before

1957
01:20:54,290 --> 01:20:52,380
the 2008 crash everybody had a lot of

1958
01:20:56,330 --> 01:20:54,300
money everybody like uh everybody was

1959
01:20:58,189 --> 01:20:56,340
fine I mean that's that was my

1960
01:21:01,189 --> 01:20:58,199
experience so Paul possible that was

1961
01:21:03,050 --> 01:21:01,199
very pampered at the time maybe you know

1962
01:21:05,810 --> 01:21:03,060
um I would have seen things differently

1963
01:21:07,669 --> 01:21:05,820
but now I literally spent the last

1964
01:21:10,189 --> 01:21:07,679
decade because you know in the in this

1965
01:21:11,330 --> 01:21:10,199
in this very magical Community you start

1966
01:21:13,850 --> 01:21:11,340
seeing

1967
01:21:17,689 --> 01:21:13,860
by the way fascism creeping in already

1968
01:21:19,610 --> 01:21:17,699
in the 2000s 2010s sorry where you start

1969
01:21:22,430 --> 01:21:19,620
seeing like people becoming a little bit

1970
01:21:24,950 --> 01:21:22,440
more open to talk about oh you know I

1971
01:21:27,770 --> 01:21:24,960
really love going to vowels work in

1972
01:21:30,470 --> 01:21:27,780
Germany which was the SS Castle to do my

1973
01:21:34,430 --> 01:21:30,480
my originals there uh and I was like oh

1974
01:21:36,350 --> 01:21:34,440
I'm thinking like that's wrong why would

1975
01:21:37,430 --> 01:21:36,360
you do that right why would you want to

1976
01:21:40,070 --> 01:21:37,440
go

1977
01:21:42,110 --> 01:21:40,080
yeah exactly but then like it's starting

1978
01:21:43,990 --> 01:21:42,120
creeping in for being an accelerate so

1979
01:21:46,250 --> 01:21:44,000
right now

1980
01:21:48,350 --> 01:21:46,260
especially given the fact that we live

1981
01:21:52,090 --> 01:21:48,360
in we've been living in 15 years of of

1982
01:21:54,590 --> 01:21:52,100
of decline uh recession of the recession

1983
01:21:57,649 --> 01:21:54,600
uh you know living in interesting times

1984
01:22:01,370 --> 01:21:57,659
so the the social political strata is

1985
01:22:05,090 --> 01:22:01,380
ripe for terrible things to happen so

1986
01:22:07,490 --> 01:22:05,100
you should avoid avoid like feeding into

1987
01:22:08,750 --> 01:22:07,500
these ideas as much as possible it

1988
01:22:10,370 --> 01:22:08,760
doesn't matter if you install the course

1989
01:22:11,810 --> 01:22:10,380
as a matter if you don't sell books

1990
01:22:15,050 --> 01:22:11,820
doesn't matter if your business

1991
01:22:18,590 --> 01:22:15,060
fails to be fair like you're you're you

1992
01:22:20,450 --> 01:22:18,600
should be more on the lookout for

1993
01:22:23,030 --> 01:22:20,460
avoiding that the people that will want

1994
01:22:25,310 --> 01:22:23,040
you to see burned at the stake go back

1995
01:22:27,950 --> 01:22:25,320
in power it doesn't seem that a lot of

1996
01:22:29,689 --> 01:22:27,960
people get it maybe they need to be

1997
01:22:32,689 --> 01:22:29,699
better than the steak I don't know yeah

1998
01:22:35,510 --> 01:22:32,699
so later get there right I don't know it

1999
01:22:38,270 --> 01:22:35,520
it it's really is dumb funding for me

2000
01:22:41,750 --> 01:22:38,280
like I I don't get it but hey here we

2001
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:41,760
are here we are Marco this has been an

2002
01:22:46,250 --> 01:22:43,920
incredible conversation super super

2003
01:22:48,050 --> 01:22:46,260
excited to have you join us

2004
01:22:49,370 --> 01:22:48,060
um before I let you get back to your

2005
01:22:50,330 --> 01:22:49,380
evening

2006
01:22:53,510 --> 01:22:50,340
um

2007
01:22:55,790 --> 01:22:53,520
where can our audience find you

2008
01:22:58,010 --> 01:22:55,800
so uh you can find me everywhere on

2009
01:23:01,669 --> 01:22:58,020
social media and just look for Marco

2010
01:23:03,890 --> 01:23:01,679
visconte I will be um Twitter is my main

2011
01:23:07,490 --> 01:23:03,900
um my main social media mostly because

2012
01:23:08,870 --> 01:23:07,500
I'm there to try and combat the Elon

2013
01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:08,880
Musk takeover

2014
01:23:15,050 --> 01:23:11,760
I'm very successful but hey

2015
01:23:17,209 --> 01:23:15,060
um I like Twitter I never I I I I refuse

2016
01:23:19,010 --> 01:23:17,219
to to to go away with it I mean if it

2017
01:23:21,050 --> 01:23:19,020
becomes completely impossible to deal

2018
01:23:23,570 --> 01:23:21,060
with it I'll live

2019
01:23:25,630 --> 01:23:23,580
um so Twitter is my the main place where

2020
01:23:28,370 --> 01:23:25,640
you can find me or

2021
01:23:29,450 --> 01:23:28,380
umti.org is the website where it has my

2022
01:23:32,930 --> 01:23:29,460
email if you want to contact me

2023
01:23:36,410 --> 01:23:32,940
privately by email uh and then uh thank

2024
01:23:38,930 --> 01:23:36,420
you have the best way and um and then if

2025
01:23:40,970 --> 01:23:38,940
you're curious about my courses uh well

2026
01:23:43,070 --> 01:23:40,980
your two choices really uh if you buy

2027
01:23:45,229 --> 01:23:43,080
the book at the end of the book there is

2028
01:23:47,390 --> 01:23:45,239
uh there's a link where you can uh join

2029
01:23:50,990 --> 01:23:47,400
onto my platform for free and see what

2030
01:23:53,590 --> 01:23:51,000
it's like you know give a try and or you

2031
01:23:56,149 --> 01:23:53,600
can go on to uh magicbotmark

2032
01:23:59,149 --> 01:23:56,159
viscounty.org and you'll see there are

2033
01:24:02,689 --> 01:23:59,159
various chances for you to you know give

2034
01:24:06,669 --> 01:24:02,699
them classes by courses or just come and

2035
01:24:12,890 --> 01:24:10,010
150 people right now quite active like I

2036
01:24:15,110 --> 01:24:12,900
say it's not we're down from the numbers

2037
01:24:16,970 --> 01:24:15,120
that 300 people that we had during the

2038
01:24:18,530 --> 01:24:16,980
pandemic but of course people are out

2039
01:24:20,750 --> 01:24:18,540
there in the world and that's the thing

2040
01:24:22,669 --> 01:24:20,760
right thank you so much for having me

2041
01:24:24,950 --> 01:24:22,679
this was a great course thank you Marco

2042
01:24:25,910 --> 01:24:24,960
thank you so much have a nice evening be

2043
01:24:29,450 --> 01:24:25,920
well friend

2044
01:24:30,890 --> 01:24:29,460
bye-bye good night bye

2045
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:30,900
Kimbo

2046
01:24:35,270 --> 01:24:33,360
welcome to my world dude this is how I

2047
01:24:37,189 --> 01:24:35,280
feel talking about UFOs now you get to

2048
01:24:40,550 --> 01:24:37,199
know what it's like to talk about magic

2049
01:24:43,970 --> 01:24:40,560
yeah I like it magic it's uh very

2050
01:24:46,669 --> 01:24:43,980
interrelated and I'm happy to be sort of

2051
01:24:48,470 --> 01:24:46,679
branching yeah that contemplating uh

2052
01:24:50,870 --> 01:24:48,480
starting a new Twitter handle so that

2053
01:24:53,630 --> 01:24:50,880
I'm not pigeonholed into just the UFO

2054
01:24:55,130 --> 01:24:53,640
stuff because I'm liking the the slight

2055
01:24:57,770 --> 01:24:55,140
pivot we're doing

2056
01:24:59,330 --> 01:24:57,780
yeah I'm I really am enjoying the last

2057
01:25:02,390 --> 01:24:59,340
couple conversations we've had

2058
01:25:04,790 --> 01:25:02,400
broadening who we're talking to

2059
01:25:07,130 --> 01:25:04,800
um right so we are gonna

2060
01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:07,140
wrap things up here

2061
01:25:11,570 --> 01:25:09,120
um coming up next week on the 8th we'll

2062
01:25:14,149 --> 01:25:11,580
be doing an open lines episode so

2063
01:25:16,790 --> 01:25:14,159
um chance to round table with Campbell

2064
01:25:18,169 --> 01:25:16,800
Nick Lewis and myself

2065
01:25:20,870 --> 01:25:18,179
um and then we'll be welcoming Vanessa

2066
01:25:23,450 --> 01:25:20,880
voloco who runs pan paracon uh hi

2067
01:25:24,169 --> 01:25:23,460
strangeness for Tiana Etc

2068
01:25:27,169 --> 01:25:24,179
um

2069
01:25:29,450 --> 01:25:27,179
so hopefully we'll see folks next week

2070
01:25:32,090 --> 01:25:29,460
at a regular time 9 pm Eastern Wednesday

2071
01:25:35,390 --> 01:25:32,100
evening and we will have all four of us

2072
01:25:37,550 --> 01:25:35,400
here to do open lines and a round table

2073
01:25:40,189 --> 01:25:37,560
um Campbell before we sign off

2074
01:25:42,290 --> 01:25:40,199
anything you want to say

2075
01:25:45,590 --> 01:25:42,300
um people should come join our Discord

2076
01:25:48,050 --> 01:25:45,600
uh in the chat it's uh we've got a bunch

2077
01:25:50,030 --> 01:25:48,060
of good channels and uh can come and

2078
01:25:53,270 --> 01:25:50,040
argue with me if you disagree with what

2079
01:25:56,570 --> 01:25:53,280
I say and I'll be polite and listen we

2080
01:25:58,189 --> 01:25:56,580
have a very civilized Discord no it's

2081
01:26:01,070 --> 01:25:58,199
very good yeah and that's the thing is

2082
01:26:03,169 --> 01:26:01,080
it's hard to have conversations uh where

2083
01:26:05,510 --> 01:26:03,179
you're sort of trying to engage on the

2084
01:26:07,790 --> 01:26:05,520
underlying stuff but uh stay respectful

2085
01:26:09,430 --> 01:26:07,800
and we're trying to do that and we're I

2086
01:26:13,910 --> 01:26:09,440
think doing a pretty good job so far

2087
01:26:15,229 --> 01:26:13,920
yeah Good Vibes all around cool Campbell

2088
01:26:17,090 --> 01:26:15,239
thank you so much for taking the

2089
01:26:18,410 --> 01:26:17,100
afternoon well thank you thanks for

2090
01:26:20,090 --> 01:26:18,420
everyone tuning in either catching us

2091
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:20,100
live or on

2092
01:26:23,750 --> 01:26:22,320
a recording we'll see you all next

2093
01:26:29,430 --> 01:26:23,760
Wednesday at 9pm

2094
01:26:52,140 --> 01:26:50,709
[Music]

2095
01:27:05,350 --> 01:26:52,150
thank you

2096
01:27:07,930 --> 01:27:05,360
[Music]

2097
01:27:10,250 --> 01:27:07,940
[Applause]